Prime Time Leave Question

yourinthehold

Member
Messages
8
This is a similar question to another thread. Here is the situation. Our facility is still on 5/5 and we don't know when we will return to normal. NATCA wants to stay but management wants to go back due to an increase in traffic. We bid our prime time leave based on a 5/2 schedule. My RDOs are Thur/Fri but due to the 5/5 schedule I now have to work on Thur/Fri with prime time leave scheduled around those days. I have a spot leave request for the Thur/Fri but it was denied due to staffing. Management is saying they don't have to honor the PTL 7 days is a week rule because we bid PTL for a 5/2 schedule and there is nothing in the contract or our BWS MOU that addresses what to do if our RDOs change. Do I have a grievance here? What are other facilities doing in this situation?
 

alphaalpha69

Member
Messages
29
No the contract says you can self certify your illness
SL can’t be used on an OT shift, you’re simply relieved from the shift.

When it comes to being relieved from an OT shift, Article 38 states “An employee shall be relieved of an overtime assignment when, in the judgement of the agency: A.) the health or efficiency of the employee may be impaired”

Have you ever heard of them going through this? I haven’t. We just call in on the mid and the ATM gets mad that we didn’t find a replacement.

I’m just looking at it from the technical, black/white perspective.
 

yourinthehold

Member
Messages
8
Any facility still on 5/5 is BS at this point. Traffic is skyrocketing, a huge chunk of the workforce has already been vaccinated, and ATC zero’s outside of the mid haven’t really happened in months.
I agree. One half of our facility wants to go back to normal the other half wants to stay on 5/5. NATCA and management are fighting each other pretty hard on the issue. Our traffic is back to 2019 levels and we are working short and cant open positions when needed.
 

yourinthehold

Member
Messages
8
The union needs to stop fighting tooth and nail for it. Unfortunately, it’d be hard for a grievance to go anywhere when it’s due to something the union is specifically fighting for. It’s hurting training, it’s hurting leave, it’s hurting staffing. The whole “5/5 FOREVER” mindset needs to end.
I didn't think I had a grievance so I wanted to ask around first. I have a feeling it is going to bite us in the butt in the future. We can't complain about being understaffed if we are handling the traffic on a reduced staffing schedule.
 

corn4ahead

Trusted Contributor
Messages
532
Any facility still on 5/5 is BS at this point. Traffic is skyrocketing, a huge chunk of the workforce has already been vaccinated, and ATC zero’s outside of the mid haven’t really happened in months.
“Traffic is skyrocketing.”
-not true, traffic still down 40% nationally. Then again, your definition of “skyrocketing” may be different than mine.

“a huge chunk of the workforce has already been vaccinated”
-again not true at all. I would say best case, 20% have gotten 1 shot and probably half that are fully vaccinated.

“ATC zero haven’t happened in months.”
- true to an extent but the cleanings are still happening. Facilities have just figured our ways to go ATC Limited vs Zero.

Per Friday, there are about 60 facilities all on 5/5.
 

CF

Assistant to the Regional Moderator
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
2,448
Any facility still on 5/5 is BS at this point. Traffic is skyrocketing, a huge chunk of the workforce has already been vaccinated, and ATC zero’s outside of the mid haven’t really happened in months.
Why are you high jacking this thread to post your very well document grievance with the union? Who cares if it’s bs they are on 5/5? They are and OP is trying to get advice for this specific situation.
 

yourinthehold

Member
Messages
8
Unlikely it will even be feasible in the near future though. Air travel to vacation destinations has already surpassed pre-COVID numbers and still rising. There’s a reasonable chance overall traffic numbers by this summer could be higher than 2019 at this

I hope you feel better soon when you get sick on that Thursday Friday. I hate those 48 hour bugs.
I'll probably just cancel the leave since I didn't buy tickets anywhere. The problem is there are a whole bunch of people in my facility that this will affect if we are on 5/5 much longer. Do you think I have a legit grievance or is management correct in their application?
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
5,206
I'll probably just cancel the leave since I didn't buy tickets anywhere. The problem is there are a whole bunch of people in my facility that this will affect if we are on 5/5 much longer. Do you think I have a legit grievance or is management correct in their application?
Our facilities kept 2 leave lists for this. An official and unofficial. They said you for sure get your prime time but if people don’t work it out then it could make us go to 5/2 for coverage
 

Move78

Forum Sage
Messages
1,130
“Traffic is skyrocketing.”
-not true, traffic still down 40% nationally. Then again, your definition of “skyrocketing” may be different than mine.

“a huge chunk of the workforce has already been vaccinated”
-again not true at all. I would say best case, 20% have gotten 1 shot and probably half that are fully vaccinated.

“ATC zero haven’t happened in months.”
- true to an extent but the cleanings are still happening. Facilities have just figured our ways to go ATC Limited vs Zero.

Per Friday, there are about 60 facilities all on 5/5.
It’s very much not the same everywhere. The range of traffic relative pre covid is wide. Has been for some time.
 

Spaceforce

Trusted Contributor
Messages
278
Our facilities kept 2 leave lists for this. An official and unofficial. They said you for sure get your prime time but if people don’t work it out then it could make us go to 5/2 for coverage
We bid 5/5 then bid 5/2. Everyone bid the leave they wanted on 5/5, then we did it again for 5/2. It was a shit show. People bid so fast for 5/5, then when 5/2 came around it lasted over 2 weeks when normally we are done in one. People are still in the “we going back to normal or what?” Because some of their leave they bid isn’t covering the 5/5 because we didn’t expect us to be on this more than half the year.
 

Phillytroll69

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
441
Facility
JNU Juneau Tower
We bid 5/5 then bid 5/2. Everyone bid the leave they wanted on 5/5, then we did it again for 5/2. It was a shit show. People bid so fast for 5/5, then when 5/2 came around it lasted over 2 weeks when normally we are done in one. People are still in the “we going back to normal or what?” Because some of their leave they bid isn’t covering the 5/5 because we didn’t expect us to be on this more than half the year.
shceduled on rdos with the rest of the time off lol
 

BigEggplant

Trusted Contributor
Messages
173
I'll probably just cancel the leave since I didn't buy tickets anywhere. The problem is there are a whole bunch of people in my facility that this will affect if we are on 5/5 much longer. Do you think I have a legit grievance or is management correct in their application?
Management may be wrong, your Round One prime-time leave consists of two weeks, a week is seven consecutive days per the contract. That includes your RDOs. If it was you 11th-15th day of leave, your RDOs aren’t protected per the contract.
 

alphaalpha69

Member
Messages
29
For PTL, you bid two weeks consecutive or nonconsecutive.
You select two 7-day periods for the leave. 5 work days and two protected weekend days that cannot be scheduled OT. They can be in any order so long as the 7 day period is consecutive.

(L) = Leave
(P) = protected RDO
(R) = RDO that could be scheduled OT
(W) = regular work day

examples:

1. W L L L P P L L W
2. R P L L L L L P R
3. P P L L L L L R R

While example 3 is your most common use of selecting 7 days, they are all valid. When it comes to PTL, you have 7 protected days, regardless of RDO’s.

Contract Article 24 covers leave bidding.
Contract Article 32 covers BWS rotation.

If your facility doesn’t have two separate MOU’s, your FacRep really fucked up. I’m going to assume you have two.

Now regarding a grievance… Absolutely grieve this. They two are independent articles and MOU’s. If the Agency identifies a staffing imbalance and forces you to move to a new set of RDO’s halfway through the year, you still have 7 protected days regardless of where the leave lands. If you volunteer to change RDO’s, you get the same two sets of 7 protected days. It may change the layout from example 1 to Example 2, but you still get your days.

Go to the FacRep, if he doesn’t support you, call the ARVP. You’ll get your leave.
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
1,889
You still get charged the OT hours though right? Not that anyone gives a shit about that.
If they track it correctly yes. Which is probably moot if you’re to the point of banging out for them. Six day work weeks suck.....

I always tell people to stop ignoring your OT calls. Answer and then turn it down. Alcohol. Allergy medication. Lots of reasons you wouldn’t be able to go in, and it charges you 8 hours if you decline.
 
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