Pushed to the brink? Another NYT article rehashes all the problems that haven't changed since before Reagan and PATCO

[GulfBravoPapa]

The way I see it there is literally no way for staffing to get better before it gets worse. We all know training and certification doesn't happen overnight. Increasing the hiring goal, even if it was more than a net of 200 people in ten years still does nothing for years. As morale and conditions get worse people are going to retire earlier and/or quit.

 

[CaptainObvious]

The way I see it there is literally no way for staffing to get better before it gets worse. We all know training and certification doesn't happen overnight. Increasing the hiring goal, even if it was more than a net of 200 people in ten years still does nothing for years. As morale and conditions get worse people are going to retire earlier and/or quit.

So pay needs to increase to compensate for the poor working conditions if they want a slim hope of keeping people

 

[Shikaka]

 

[Raise when?]

Pls no more collaboration NATCA 😩😩😩

 

[Golf delta]

I don’t know who mentioned it before, but somebody said a great suggestion in another thread. Make a pay incentive for time at a facility. An extra 2-4% per year you’re CPC at the same facility. That would decrease people wanting to move. If they’re trying to throw money at a problem to make it disappear faster this seems like the option. Every time someone transfers, it takes them out of the rotation for 1-3 years. But you don’t want to shut off transfers cause that’ll just piss everyone off and make people quit.

 

[32andBelow]

I don’t know who mentioned it before, but somebody said a great suggestion in another thread. Make a pay incentive for time at a facility. An extra 2-4% per year you’re CPC at the same facility. That would decrease people wanting to move. If they’re trying to throw money at a problem to make it disappear faster this seems like the option. Every time someone transfers, it takes them out of the rotation for 1-3 years. But you don’t want to shut off transfers cause that’ll just piss everyone off and make people quit.

Transfers are already shut off and people don’t realize it

 

[CaptainObvious]

Transfers are already shut off and people don’t realize it

But…but… they fixed the good old boy transfer system. Now you just have to be a rep or favored by your rep to get out.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Get ready for people to ask how you use your cone flashlights

 

[Phillyman2633]

Get ready for people to ask how you use your cone fleshlights

 

[Move78]

But…but… they fixed the good old boy transfer system. Now you just have to be a rep or favored by your rep to get out.

Receiving facilities have a lot less say than they used to so telling them they have too much influence over who they get is gonna be a tough sell.

 

[ATC Zero]

Get ready for people to ask how you use your cone flashlights

NATCA’s response is just sickening. They need to be exposed as their response to this article is a complete lie.
Anyone that says well I want to stay in until I get where I want, look at the facts if your facility can only release once every few years, you also have to be at the top of the want list of the receiving facility. Chances are low.
I hope there is a MASS EXODUS in JANUARY. This union has become insignificant.

 

[Phillytroll69]

NATCA’s response is just sickening. They need to be exposed as their response to this article is a complete lie.
Anyone that says well I want to stay in until I get where I want, look at the facts if your facility can only release once every few years, you also have to be at the top of the want list of the receiving facility. Chances are low.
I hope there is a MASS EXODUS in JANUARY. This union has become insignificant.

Well your hope won't happen.

The issue is that the white book was so long ago, a lot of people retired and forgot.

What I see happening is a slow leaving. More and more people think of the union as some arbitrary organization that they can't get involved in, even if they want to. At some point after volunteering for details, nit being able to go to conferences, and blah blah you just decide it's a waste. We've already had a few leave, I can't know everyone's reasons.

BUT what scares me when the contract renewal comes up. Now that the media is saying CONTROLLERS, not the agency, not the pilots, not the weather...what if they just come out and say-we can't enforce xyz because of the current labor contract. Election years coming up and contract renewal.

If this narrative sticks its bad news.

Imagine having to clock yourself out, imagine you arrive to be told each position you'll be working for 2 hours throughout the day, imagine a doctor's note for EVERY instance of sick leave.

This is real in other government organization/agencies. Be as mad as you want or as apathetic as you want, but the fact remains we have a massive amount to be grateful for. That said, who knows what the future holds. I can tell you one thing you might have to buy your own holiday food!

 

[Move78]

NATCA’s response is just sickening. They need to be exposed as their response to this article is a complete lie.
Anyone that says well I want to stay in until I get where I want, look at the facts if your facility can only release once every few years, you also have to be at the top of the want list of the receiving facility. Chances are low.
I hope there is a MASS EXODUS in JANUARY. This union has become insignificant.

Just bid OS and shut up dude. We get it, all your problems are someone else’s fault. The article uses a few allegations to paint 12000 controllers in a bad light. Of course the union will denounce that part and support the staffing shortage angle. Wtf else would you expect your union to say?
You’re in a sad state to attach your identity to weakening the bargaining unit and spread your miserable personality to others.

 

[ATC Zero]

Well your hope won't happen.

The issue is that the white book was so long ago, a lot of people retired and forgot.

What I see happening is a slow leaving. More and more people think of the union as some arbitrary organization that they can't get involved in, even if they want to. At some point after volunteering for details, nit being able to go to conferences, and blah blah you just decide it's a waste. We've already had a few leave, I can't know everyone's reasons.

BUT what scares me when the contract renewal comes up. Now that the media is saying CONTROLLERS, not the agency, not the pilots, not the weather...what if they just come out and say-we can't enforce xyz because of the current labor contract. Election years coming up and contract renewal.

If this narrative sticks its bad news.

Imagine having to clock yourself out, imagine you arrive to be told each position you'll be working for 2 hours throughout the day, imagine a doctor's note for EVERY instance of sick leave.

This is real in other government organization/agencies. Be as mad as you want or as apathetic as you want, but the fact remains we have a massive amount to be grateful for. That said, who knows what the future holds. I can tell you one thing you might have to buy your own holiday food!

There’s a lot there. Agree on a lot. I was hired during white book and it was better than the military so I didn’t know any better. For the people hired in the red/slate book days they may take for granted some thing for-sure. The working conditions and the status quo for so long is pissing people off.
What happens with this election and contract will have a major effect of whether or not they are able to become relevant again as they once were or be viewed as an extension of the agency as they are now. People will slowly leave as you mentioned.
If I have to sign myself out or buy my own food I’m just fine with that I’m getting a paid 30 minutes lunch so I don’t really care about a few minute shove.

 

[ATC Zero]

Just bid OS and shut up dude. We get it, all your problems are someone else’s fault. The article uses a few allegations to paint 12000 controllers in a bad light. Of course the union will denounce that part and support the staffing shortage angle. Wtf else would you expect your union to say?
You’re in a sad state to attach your identity to weakening the bargaining unit and spread your miserable personality to others.

I bet the fatigued and mental issues are in the thousands of that 12,000. It’s not just about three people who interviewed with the NYT it’s a systemic problem. NATCA could help make turns 10 hours, limit the amount of overtime that they are using to solve their problems (reduced services) negotiate pay higher than GS scale. There has been a staffing problem for far too long and NATCA is ok to watch traffic increase and actually staffing go down and keep saying the same shit hire more people. Not how can we advocate for the people on the boards for dealing with this BS position they are working in. Extend the contract! Best ever!

 

[Mr.Tickles]

Just bid OS and shut up dude. We get it, all your problems are someone else’s fault. The article uses a few allegations to paint 12000 controllers in a bad light. Of course the union will denounce that part and support the staffing shortage angle. Wtf else would you expect your union to say?
You’re in a sad state to attach your identity to weakening the bargaining unit and spread your miserable personality to others.

Besides implementing CRWG numbers how is NATCA advocating for us to improve our quality of life immediately? Staffing takes years to fix. I’ve yet to see anything mentioned by NATCA fighting to increase our pay, differentials, or anything in order to compensate us during the years it’ll take to fix our staffing. Maybe a better contract should have been negotiated when we had the chance with the most labor friendly administration ever. The union has done plenty to weaken itself recently.

I’ll happily admit I’m wrong if the union is actually fighting for things like that currently and I’ve just missed the boat. Only thing I can think of is the increase in OJTI pay.

 

[the inquirer]

Somehow New York got 25% cip for a few years. Give all controllers 25% extra until we hit 100% staffing with the old numbers. Just make up a new name for it so it’s not limited by the CIP cap. Agency will have a motive to hire more.

 

[32andBelow]

Somehow New York got 25% cip for a few years. Give all controllers 25% extra until we hit 100% staffing with the old numbers. Just make up a new name for it so it’s not limited by the CIP cap. Agency will have a motive to hire more.

Do it till they hit 100% of the new numbers that they think are so important

 

[ManBearPig]

Receiving facilities have a lot less say than they used to so telling them they have too much influence over who they get is gonna be a tough sell.

This. We are getting people dead last on our ATM rankings.

 

[Bandit117]

This. We are getting people dead last on our ATM rankings.

It was a few panels ago but m98 got the very last person, a guy from flint with no radar exp, bc all the higher picks were off the table by the time it came down to them