Slate Book extended until July 2026

[Acquired Taste]

That take is FREEZING cold.

Big 3 automakers have spent tens of billions in stock buybacks alone over the last decade. Stock buybacks do zero for a company other than temporarily inflate their stock price. We're not even talking about shareholder dividends here; it's a legalized pump and dump for executives and large stakeholders.

Current unionized labor cost of a new vehicle accounts for roughly ~5% of the price of a vehicle. This article from 2017 states that every facet of labor, including building the factory and its operating costs, account for less than 15% of the total cost of a vehicle. And that's from 2017, before car prices skyrocketed while labor costs have stayed flat.

No matter what their corporate spokespeople try to say, they are full of shit when they say they can't afford to treat their employees better.

I'll take Tariffs for a thousand, Alex.

Rest in honor, King. 👑

Maybe they can afford it when times are good but the point of a business is to make money and survive. If making money by manufacturing in America is much more difficult than if the manufacturing was done overseas. People want to buy the best products for the lowest price and if that means cutting out the unionized auto worker, so be it. You do realize it was UAW demands/contract obligations that forced GM into bankruptcy the first time right? Of course, the almighty taxpayer had to save the day with a bailout. It's fine though, the auto workers got theirs..... until they didn't anymore.

Who do you think pays tariffs btw? It's just an added cost that is passed on to consumers. Protectionism makes industries less competitive and hurts consumers.

Idk why you can't admit that you just worship capitalism and business owners

Idk why you can't base your any arguments on logic instead of feelings. The funny thing is you can't even really form an argument. You just whine about "ugh, corporations are such greedy pigs. I think every worker should be a millionaire and only have to work part time. If corporations can't pay a wage like that, they don't even deserve to be in business because they suck!"

 

[100pctwet]

If you guys knew Acquired Taste you wouldn't even waste your time responding.

 

[Move78]

No, I'm the guy who has the ability to think logically and see how a series of events would unfold. All you guys live in fantasy land where all the workers' demands are met and the companies turn 0 profit at the end of the day and everyone lives happily ever after. Unfortunately here in the real world, especially in our globalized economy, American labor is competing with the rest of the world that can make superior products for a fraction of the costs. It's not about me not wanting labor to thrive, it's about the reality of the consequences of them thriving.

How is this dipshit not a supe yet?
They make 20B a year. They can go on tv and threaten to move the cost onto the customer to get idiots like this to sell out their neighbor but it’s a bluff cuz those customers will just go else where. It’s the same game every year, the poors fight each other for the scraps and Corporate America gets to keep all the money. The working class gets killed first and fed last. Support the strike.

 

[Wizard]

How is this dipshit not a supe yet?
They make 20B a year. They can go on tv and threaten to move the cost onto the customer to get idiots like this to sell out their neighbor but it’s a bluff cuz those customers will just go else where. It’s the same game every year, the poors fight each other for the scraps and Corporate America gets to keep all the money. The working class gets killed first and fed last. Support the strike.

He is a sup I thought 🤣

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Here’s and idea, why not work to renegotiate the next contract immediately, even if it wouldn’t take effect until 2026? We did so over a year early last time. This would be a chance to still negotiate with “the most labor friendly administration ever”.

They were allegedly scared Trump would win (despite him being 10 points down in all the polls) so they threw away any bargaining power to re-up an outdated garbage deal last time.

Now Trump is up in the polls. I know the polls are garbage and rather economy, security and quality of life the prime issue of every election going forward ever again is abortion, but you would think they should at least be equally scared on a Trump win now.

Renegotiate now and get at least 30% over four years in 2026-2029 and fill the gaps over the next two years with new and expanded premium pays which has been rumored for awhile not but like normal the NEB won’t say dick about it.

 

[showtime]

Here’s and idea, why not work to renegotiate the next contract immediately, even if it wouldn’t take effect until 2026? We did so over a year early last time. This would be a chance to still negotiate with “the most labor friendly administration ever”.

They were allegedly scared Trump would win (despite him being 10 points down in all the polls) so they threw away any bargaining power to re-up an outdated garbage deal last time.

Now Trump is up in the polls. I know the polls are garbage and rather economy, security and quality of life the prime issue of every election going forward ever again is abortion, but you would think they should at least be equally scared on a Trump win now.

Renegotiate now and get at least 30% over four years in 2026-2029 and fill the gaps over the next two years with new and expanded premium pays which has been rumored for awhile not but like normal the NEB won’t say dick about it.

I have a terrible feeling upper NATCA leadership has sold out. They are not representing in good faith and at this point are an extension of management. We have an illusion of a union. Don’t get your hopes up for any sort of renegotiation of the contract.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I have a terrible feeling upper NATCA leadership has sold out. They are not representing in good faith and at this point are an extension of management. We have an illusion of a union. Don’t get your hopes up for any sort of renegotiation of the contract.

I hope I am wrong.

I think you are right, one other obvious example are these campaign videos pretending to criticize the contract and NTI when the whole NEB was so in lock step with all that previously, and any questioning of it and they looked at you like you were absolutely nuts or made fun of you if you questioned it on a Fac Rep call.

 

[Motodog]

I have a terrible feeling upper NATCA leadership has sold out. They are not representing in good faith and at this point are an extension of management. We have an illusion of a union. Don’t get your hopes up for any sort of renegotiation of the contract.

I hope I am wrong.

You’re not wrong. Similar to the pilot’s union. Chief pilots become union reps, and vice versa. It’s one big fraternity

 

[CoffeeIV]

Renegotiate now and get at least 30% over four years in 2026-2029 and fill the gaps over the next two years with new and expanded premium pays which has been rumored for awhile not but like normal the NEB won’t say dick about it.

I dont want to rain on anyones parade but the way Nick/Jamaal talked when I met them I highly doubt 30% is happening under them. I dont even know if 20% is possible. They're aiming for premiums/differentials though if the NEB is already working on that then theyre trying to take credit for something down the road that they had little to do with.

I brought up how non-ATC federal employees have had their pay increased just as much as ours outside the 1.6% and was given an answer about how the 1.6% actually compounds with the Presidential raise and is actually more than just 1.6% (which is true, but barely).

So yeah, that's the other choice we have.

 

[Soul_Controller]

I dont want to rain on anyones parade but the way Nick/Jamaal talked when I met them I highly doubt 30% is happening under them. I dont even know if 20% is possible. They're aiming for premiums/differentials though if the NEB is already working on that then theyre trying to take credit for something down the road that they had little to do with.

I brought up how non-ATC federal employees have had their pay increased just as much as ours outside the 1.6% and was given an answer about how the 1.6% actually compounds with the Presidential raise and is actually more than just 1.6% (which is true, but barely).

So yeah, that's the other choice we have.

In all fairness "one of my yearly raises doesn't count" is one of the dumber points to be made in public.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I dont want to rain on anyones parade but the way Nick/Jamaal talked when I met them I highly doubt 30% is happening under them. I dont even know if 20% is possible. They're aiming for premiums/differentials though if the NEB is already working on that then theyre trying to take credit for something down the road that they had little to do with.

I brought up how non-ATC federal employees have had their pay increased just as much as ours outside the 1.6% and was given an answer about how the 1.6% actually compounds with the Presidential raise and is actually more than just 1.6% (which is true, but barely).

So yeah, that's the other choice we have.

200k with a 5% raise is 10k 210k
1.6 percent of that 3360
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 3150
Net raise of 110 dollars/26 paychecks
4.23 a paycheck

100k with a 5% raise is 5k 105k
1.6 percent of that is 1680
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 1575
Net raise of 105 dollars/26 paychecks
4.03 a paycheck
Almost negligible I agree

BUT we forgot the rest of that raise helps of have inputs on huge projects, like the safety report that just came put where we made sure the faa included diversity. We successfully changed notices to air men to notices to air people or something. We have half like half the cab on details. Can't transfer. But cfs, the convention, niw, etc all get upgraded for those that can get leave...which I've somehow never been approved for but I guess getting involved is somehow possible?

Supervisors pay (I have no idea) a year for sup insurance.
200k with a 5% raise is 10k 210k
Net raise of 10 k dollars/26 paychecks
More than 4 dollars a paycheck (384.62)

100k with a 5% raise is 5k 105k
Net raise of 5k dollars/26 paychecks
More than 4 dollars a paycheck (192.36)

Note:supervisors do not always get additional raises and can't get in fistfight at their holiday party.

 

[bomber996]

200k with a 5% raise is 10k 210k
1.6 percent of that 3360
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 3150
Net raise of 110 dollars/26 paychecks
4.23 a paycheck

100k with a 5% raise is 5k 105k
1.6 percent of that is 1680
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 1575
Net raise of 105 dollars/26 paychecks
4.03 a paycheck
Almost negligible I agree

BUT we forgot the rest of that raise helps of have inputs on huge projects, like the safety report that just came put where we made sure the faa included diversity. We successfully changed notices to air men to notices to air people or something. We have half like half the cab on details. Can't transfer. But cfs, the convention, niw, etc all get upgraded for those that can get leave...which I've somehow never been approved for but I guess getting involved is somehow possible?

Supervisors pay (I have no idea) a year for sup insurance.
200k with a 5% raise is 10k 210k
Net raise of 10 k dollars/26 paychecks
More than 4 dollars a paycheck (384.62)

100k with a 5% raise is 5k 105k
Net raise of 5k dollars/26 paychecks
More than 4 dollars a paycheck (192.36)

Note:supervisors do not always get additional raises and can't get in fistfight at their holiday party.

Your numbers seem to assume no Union dues before the raise. Unless I am totally misreading the numbers you provided, what are the numbers when you take into account this generic BUE paying 1.5% in dues before their 1.6% raise?

 

[CoffeeIV]

In all fairness "one of my yearly raises doesn't count" is one of the dumber points to be made in public.

I didn't say it didn't count. I simply said some people view the career field not really getting anything that every other federal employee doesn't get. PPL, Presidential raise, etc etc is something every federal employee gets. Overall I'm relatively indifferent, I just wanted to see what their view and goal for pay raises for us in the future would be.

Ive seen people complain about this exact issue on this forum and reddit many times. Might as well see what a candidate has to say.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Your numbers seem to assume no Union dues before the raise. Unless I am totally misreading the numbers you provided, what are the numbers when you take into account this generic BUE paying 1.5% in dues before their 1.6% raise?

Uhh you still get paid the same amount regardless of where it goes? Not sure I understand your question.

I didn't say it didn't count. I simply said some people view the career field not really getting anything that every other federal employee doesn't get. PPL, Presidential raise, etc etc is something every federal employee gets. Overall I'm relatively indifferent, I just wanted to see what their view and goal for pay raises for us in the future would be.

Ive seen people complain about this exact issue on this forum and reddit many times. Might as well see what a candidate has to say.

Well we get these uniform raises instead of performance based, to match gs steps....I'm also not seeing stuff specific for controllers except the ability for fatigue breaks on overnights....cuz no other federal employee gets that.....

401k matching, same, but can't short aviation
Leave, (Annual Leave for Federal Employees) same

So what do we actually get
-Self policing breaks
-Not fired after 3 deals
-Not scheduled 2 on, 30 off (well it is some days)
-Wifi at facilities that isn't government monitored (but the in club gets the dirt, dont google divorce on union wifi when married to controller)
-Some facilities have gyms

I mean we take this stuff for granted but the government use to treat atc like shit. We aren't even 20 years post white book and history has forgotten. With all this staffing stuff happening you think they'll loosen the reigns next contract?

The new union goals should be streamline the climb. It shouldn't take 20 years to get to a 12, force the newcomers to towers and release on seniority to any understaffed facility. The FAA is going to look to shut down any types of transfers that aren't promotions mark my words.

The union is the reason you don't have every position split out all day every day. You get to self manage your job (for the most part) and take decent breaks.

We absolutely should fight for more money when we can, but the union is protecting us from white book 2 right now. Don't forget the us government didn't want to provide air conditioning and decent working conditions during the patco days.

Whitw book is on the horizon, we are getting less raises than sups, but for all the complaints the union has done a good job

 

[32andBelow]

Uhh you still get paid the same amount regardless of where it goes? Not sure I understand your question.

Well we get these uniform raises instead of performance based, to match gs steps....I'm also not seeing stuff specific for controllers except the ability for fatigue breaks on overnights....cuz no other federal employee gets that.....

401k matching, same, but can't short aviation
Leave, (Annual Leave for Federal Employees) same

So what do we actually get
-Self policing breaks
-Not fired after 3 deals
-Not scheduled 2 on, 30 off (well it is some days)
-Wifi at facilities that isn't government monitored (but the in club gets the dirt, dont google divorce on union wifi when married to controller)
-Some facilities have gyms

I mean we take this stuff for granted but the government use to treat atc like shit. We aren't even 20 years post white book and history has forgotten. With all this staffing stuff happening you think they'll loosen the reigns next contract?

The new union goals should be streamline the climb. It shouldn't take 20 years to get to a 12, force the newcomers to towers and release on seniority to any understaffed facility. The FAA is going to look to shut down any types of transfers that aren't promotions mark my words.

The union is the reason you don't have every position split out all day every day. You get to self manage your job (for the most part) and take decent breaks.

We absolutely should fight for more money when we can, but the union is protecting us from white book 2 right now. Don't forget the us government didn't want to provide air conditioning and decent working conditions during the patco days.

Whitw book is on the horizon, we are getting less raises than sups, but for all the complaints the union has done a good job

Why would mayor pete want to put the white book on us. The fact that we are gonna pass on negotiating with him is insane

 

[bomber996]

Uhh you still get paid the same amount regardless of where it goes? Not sure I understand your question.

Lets look at what was said.

200k with a 5% raise is 10k 210k
1.6 percent of that 3360
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 3150
Net raise of 110 dollars/26 paychecks
4.23 a paycheck

100k with a 5% raise is 5k 105k
1.6 percent of that is 1680
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 1575
Net raise of 105 dollars/26 paychecks
4.03 a paycheck

Are you saying that WE only get a raise of $4.23/$4.03 per paycheck after the 1.6? That math does not checkout unless this specific person was NOT a member of NATCA before the 1.6% raise.

In the case of the $210k, NATCA will get an additional $50.40 over the course of the year. This means a net raise of $3310, or ~$127 a paycheck.

$210,000 * .015 = $3150
$213,360 * .015 = $3200.40

In the case of the $100k, NATCA will get an additional $25.20 over the course of the year. This means a net raise of $1654.80, or $64 a paycheck.

$105,000 * .015 = $1575
$106,680 * .015 = $1600.20

I'd be happy to hear if my math doesn't checkout.

 

[Soul_Controller]

200k with a 5% raise is 10k 210k
1.6 percent of that 3360
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 3150
Net raise of 110 dollars/26 paychecks
4.23 a paycheck

100k with a 5% raise is 5k 105k
1.6 percent of that is 1680
-your proportional union dues (1.5%) 1575
Net raise of 105 dollars/26 paychecks
4.03 a paycheck
Almost negligible I agree

BUT we forgot the rest of that raise helps of have inputs on huge projects, like the safety report that just came put where we made sure the faa included diversity. We successfully changed notices to air men to notices to air people or something. We have half like half the cab on details. Can't transfer. But cfs, the convention, niw, etc all get upgraded for those that can get leave...which I've somehow never been approved for but I guess getting involved is somehow possible?

Supervisors pay (I have no idea) a year for sup insurance.
200k with a 5% raise is 10k 210k
Net raise of 10 k dollars/26 paychecks
More than 4 dollars a paycheck (384.62)

100k with a 5% raise is 5k 105k
Net raise of 5k dollars/26 paychecks
More than 4 dollars a paycheck (192.36)

Note:supervisors do not always get additional raises and can't get in fistfight at their holiday party.

A supe at ZJX punched a controller at a school event and I'm pretty sure he's an OM now

 

[MoreMoneyLessProblems]

A supe at ZJX punched a controller at a school event and I'm pretty sure he's an OM now

Sound about right, not that surprised. Controllers have fought other controllers and been promoted to supervisor or put on details plenty of times.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Uhh you still get paid the same amount regardless of where it goes? Not sure I understand your question.

Well we get these uniform raises instead of performance based, to match gs steps....I'm also not seeing stuff specific for controllers except the ability for fatigue breaks on overnights....cuz no other federal employee gets that.....

401k matching, same, but can't short aviation
Leave, (Annual Leave for Federal Employees) same

So what do we actually get
-Self policing breaks
-Not fired after 3 deals
-Not scheduled 2 on, 30 off (well it is some days)
-Wifi at facilities that isn't government monitored (but the in club gets the dirt, dont google divorce on union wifi when married to controller)
-Some facilities have gyms

I mean we take this stuff for granted but the government use to treat atc like shit. We aren't even 20 years post white book and history has forgotten. With all this staffing stuff happening you think they'll loosen the reigns next contract?

The new union goals should be streamline the climb. It shouldn't take 20 years to get to a 12, force the newcomers to towers and release on seniority to any understaffed facility. The FAA is going to look to shut down any types of transfers that aren't promotions mark my words.

The union is the reason you don't have every position split out all day every day. You get to self manage your job (for the most part) and take decent breaks.

We absolutely should fight for more money when we can, but the union is protecting us from white book 2 right now. Don't forget the us government didn't want to provide air conditioning and decent working conditions during the patco days.

Whitw book is on the horizon, we are getting less raises than sups, but for all the complaints the union has done a good job

Holy shit

 

[Phillytroll69]

Lets look at what was said.

$210,000 * .015 = $3150
$213,360 * .015 = $3200.40

$105,000 * .015 = $1575
$106,680 * .015 = $1600.20

I'd be happy to hear if my math doesn't checkout.

uhhh just do 100k
Raise is 1.6%, dues are 1.5%
.01% difference
.01% of 100k=100
1600-1500=100/12