Small Change to Placement Lists

[EightTwoSierra]

Yeah, I get that but it's like that because EVV is a shit hole no one wants to be at so if someone is willing to volunteer to go there, might as well let them.

I’m actually trying to get there myself. Been at a super busy facility and now want to move to that area. Can’t get out of where I’m at, sad. Could be certified there quick.

 

[Tater_Toad]

Unless the pass rate of any given class is 100%, does this not create a scenario where truly undesirable facilities will receive 0 new hires?
Example: 15/18 pass. 3 facilities don’t get picked and move to the next list. Next class 12/18 pass, those same 3 facilities don’t get picked. So on and so forth?

It's still better than forcing someone to go to nantucket to live in their car.

It's not much different than those facilities getting picked from the academy and the trainee quitting at okc and then going back home.

If you're from Milan or surrounding areas, or you're from Duluth/have family there, you can live cheap while the FAA refuses to pay you enough to move and to live in one of these places.

Yeah, I get that but it's like that because EVV is a shit hole no one wants to be at so if someone is willing to volunteer to go there, might as well let them.

I would've volunteered for EVV. My SO decided to call it quits because she wasnt willing to relocate to "somewhere" without a fucking clue where that would be. I have family that lives very close to that airport. Would have been a huge quality of life increase vs maxing out my credit cards just to buy food because it took over a year to get a fucking pay raise.

 

[Bandit117]

I would've volunteered for EVV. My SO decided to call it quits because she wasnt willing to relocate to "somewhere" without a fucking clue where that would be. I have family that lives very close to that airport. Would have been a huge quality of life increase vs maxing out my credit cards just to buy food because it took over a year to get a fucking pay raise.

Yeah. There might not be a ton of people who want to work at say BIS, but anyone who does should absolutely be allowed to go there off the rip. It’s a bit of logic and common sense prevailing.

 

[Mr. Miner]

+1 to local direct hiring, especially at centers

if you offer a $120k+ job with benefits, no degree or prior experience required, and you just have to spend ~4 months in OKC, you would get 50k+ applications at Indy, KC, Cleveland, Minneapolis EACH

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

A lot of federal agencies also assign location prior to the completion of the application process (if said agency/position has field offices). Not sure why the FAA waits until they spend an ungodly amount of money training a body just to then offer them BFE weeks before their training is complete and have candidate drop out because they don’t want to move to BFE.

So something as simple as list + assignment prior to academy report date would likely save a bunch of time, effort, and money and reduce academy DOR. But that’s too logical.

 

[RalphBeast]

+1 to local direct hiring, especially at centers

if you offer a $120k+ job with benefits, no degree or prior experience required, and you just have to spend ~4 months in OKC, you would get 50k+ applications at Indy, KC, Cleveland, Minneapolis EACH

If they did local hiring and promoted heavily in the Bay Area (e.g. community colleges, high schools, fast food drive throughs, job fairs, etc.), the staffing problem at ZOA would be solved in a few years. While the Bay Area is expensive, $200-250k/yr w/excellent benefits is still in the same tier as many big tech/law/medicine/finance jobs.

 

[32andBelow]

If they did local hiring and promoted heavily in the Bay Area (e.g. community colleges, high schools, fast food drive throughs, job fairs, etc.), the staffing problem at ZOA would be solved in a few years. While the Bay Area is expensive, $200-250k/yr w/excellent benefits is still in the same tier as many big tech/law/medicine/finance jobs.

We don’t actually have excellent benefits compared to other 200k jobs. We have average benefits.

 

[ncssailor]

We don’t actually have excellent benefits compared to other 200k jobs. We have average benefits.

You haven’t resigned yet to pursue those better opportunities?

 

[32andBelow]

You haven’t resigned yet to pursue those better opportunities?

No I like my job

 

[the inquirer]

We don’t actually have excellent benefits compared to other 200k jobs. We have average benefits.

I’m in Cali. Comparing with my cousins, who are here also and of similar age, we have ok benefits. I have cousins in banking, tech, and medical. Similar pay except for tech is a bit higher. Our health insurance is pretty great in comparison (I have GEHA). I haven’t met anyone that has better health benefits for what I pay. One of my cousins pays over 1k per month for self plus family. And no he is not self employed. We also have a pension. They have more annual leave and get the 11 holidays off. And some have the ability to work from home.

 

[32andBelow]

I’m in Cali. Comparing with my cousins, who are here also and of similar age, we have ok benefits. I have cousins in banking, tech, and medical. Similar pay except for tech is a bit higher. Our health insurance is pretty great in comparison (I have GEHA). I haven’t met anyone that has better health benefits for what I pay. One of my cousins pays over 1k per month for self plus family. And no he is not self employed. We also have a pension. They have more annual leave and get the 11 holidays off. And some have the ability to work from home.

We do have a pension but a lot of people are getting way more than 5% match. Plus a lot of us are paying nearly 5% to get our pension.

 

[RalphBeast]

My brother in in tech in the the Bay Area. His comp is usually around $230-250k. Our health insurance is way better. TSP match is pretty average. Not sure of any company in the private sector that still has a pension however. The hiring standards are quite high and there are actual performance requirements.

But there are 2 benefits that most idiots overlook in ATC:

1. The biggest benefit is job security. Tech is cyclical. There are major ageism issues. Unless you are in management, being a grunt programmer above 40y/o (I'm taking about an average contributor not a senior superstar) means you are guaranteed to be downsized by age 50.

2. Another benefit is hiring standards are incredibly low. Some of the biggest dumbasses I've ever met have been at my Z, and you can basically get a level 12 Z with no education. Yes, making $200k in the Bay Area is pretty easy with a good education, talent, and drive. But those three things are not required in ATC.

 

[penaltyvectors]

Plus a lot of us are paying nearly 5% to get our pension.

Off topic, but this really grinds my gears. I work with a guy who was hired 14 months before me and I contribute more than 5x as much as he does to our pensions. I get that the 0.8% was probably unsustainable, but jumping straight to 3.1% and then to 4.4% really created a sharp divide in the work force.

 

[ncssailor]

Off topic, but this really grinds my gears. I work with a guy who was hired 14 months before me and I contribute more than 5x as much as he does to our pensions. I get that the 0.8% was probably unsustainable, but jumping straight to 3.1% and then to 4.4% really created a sharp divide in the work force.

You missed the years that people are paying 1.3%

 

[POINTOUT]

Off topic, but this really grinds my gears. I work with a guy who was hired 14 months before me and I contribute more than 5x as much as he does to our pensions. I get that the 0.8% was probably unsustainable, but jumping straight to 3.1% and then to 4.4% really created a sharp divide in the work force.

Yup absolutely everyone should be paying the same thing. We all get the same benefit. It’s bullshit.

 

[Somenewguy]

Yup absolutely everyone should be paying the same thing. We all get the same benefit. It’s bullshit.

Most members and leaders in NATCA actually don't care about solidarity. If it means paying an extra 1% so your coworker doesn't have to, most people will throw a giant fit and tell the newer members to fuck off. Even if you got away with paying 1% for 20 years, and your coworker will pay 5% for the next 20.

Entitlement is a powerful feeling. Once people have something its very difficult to convince them to give it up, even if it's fair.

 

[Move78]

Yup absolutely everyone should be paying the same thing. We all get the same benefit. It’s bullshit.

Wait until the workforce is mixed with people that don’t even have one.

 

[32andBelow]

Most members and leaders in NATCA actually don't care about solidarity. If it means paying an extra 1% so your coworker doesn't have to, most people will throw a giant fit and tell the newer members to fuck off. Even if you got away with paying 1% for 20 years, and your coworker will pay 5% for the next 20.

Entitlement is a powerful feeling. Once people have something its very difficult to convince them to give it up, even if it's fair.

Well everyone could be paying less lol

 

[the inquirer]

We do have a pension but a lot of people are getting way more than 5% match. Plus a lot of us are paying nearly 5% to get our pension.

Yes. Forgot to mention. Everyone gets more than 5% match. Our match sucks. Definitely something that needs to be in the negotiations. If we get 10% match, then you could put less of your own contribution and effectively have a raise on take home pay.

 

[hpwjuicebox]

Yes. Forgot to mention. Everyone gets more than 5% match. Our match sucks. Definitely something that needs to be in the negotiations. If we get 10% match, then you could put less of your own contribution and effectively have a raise on take home pay.

The real crime is that your match is handicapped based on where you go. Someone at a 12 has a way higher match than someone at a 5 or 6. Compound interest is a bitch.