Terminal Class pass rate

Super Salt said:

I believe the ratio for success/failure percentages is 5 years.

Correct. Avg. training time is the same as well. It’s a rolling average.

32andBelow said:

I watched mine drop like 15% cus or 2 ppl that had no business being there.

Man I hope they get some of that retroactive pay raise cheddah y’all preaching for.

Homsar said:

Seeing low checkout rates at 11s/12s is one thing, but ~50-60% rates at level 5/6s is nuts, and shows that something wrong is going on there.

It can easily be the quality of people going there too, previous experience hires who have no business in the job being NESTed to 5/6 facilities and washing again isn't something new. Same with En-Route washouts.

Homsar said:

Seeing low checkout rates at 11s/12s is one thing, but ~50-60% rates at level 5/6s is nuts, and shows that something wrong is going on there.

My first facility was a level 6, arrived on the tail end of 3 washouts: 2 couldn’t show up on time and one tried to turn a BE-55 in abeam the numbers in front of a C-130 on a mile final.

Cloud said:

Well fuck me dude I know where more cities are than identifiers at first glance.

TUL
YNG
TWF

^^that shit is annoying. I agree that b and c level cities can be difficult to differentiate, but how the hell do you know where all these identifiers are. Am I in the minority as someone that isn't sitting at a PC right now? I haven't used a pc for anything other than a printer interface in years.

When I Google three letters I often get stupid results.

Maybe we do both? Or write city and state? Half the time I forget what ack and maf are, but that's probably because of the black holes sucking my memory from my head

This mf ain’t for real right?

Move78 said:

This mf ain’t for real right?

That MF ain't a controller so, ain't been looking at the same identifiers for 10 years. Also never thought to search the identifier on this forum, must have missed that part in the forum orientation day. I thought chapter six was "how to tell who is salty, and who is not" aparrently that was the chapter about the ins and outs of terminal class pass rate thread. My B

Cloud said:

That MF ain't a controller so, ain't been looking at the same identifiers for 10 years. Also never thought to search the identifier on this forum, must have missed that part in the forum orientation day. I thought chapter six was "how to tell who is salty, and who is not" aparrently that was the chapter about the ins and outs of terminal class pass rate thread. My B

Didn’t worry.

The forum will give you unlimited training hours due to the fact you were not indoctrinated properly.

If Move78 is being too hard on you, we can change your forum training team.

If you still can’t figure out BOS is Boston, we will offer skill enhancement training.

Worst case scenario, we will have to send you to a lower level forum like StuckMic.com

jdatc said:

Didn’t worry.

The forum will give you unlimited training hours due to the fact you were not indoctrinated properly.

If Move78 is being too hard on you, we can change your forum training team.

If you still can’t figure out BOS is Boston, we will offer skill enhancement training.

Worst case scenario, we will have to send you to a lower level forum like StuckMic.com

Do I get hazard pay?

Removed due to no relevance to pass rate.

Shikaka said:

It can easily be the quality of people going there too, previous experience hires who have no business in the job being NESTed to 5/6 facilities and washing again isn't something new. Same with En-Route washouts.

GulfCharlie said:

My first facility was a level 6, arrived on the tail end of 3 washouts: 2 couldn’t show up on time and one tried to turn a BE-55 in abeam the numbers in front of a C-130 on a mile final.

Those make sense. I guess I had the opposite experience: Started at a level 6 up/down with a 55% checkout rate, was shocked at how toxic the culture was there and couldn’t believe the FAA was like this, went from the bottom to the second to bottom in seniority and back multiple times after watching people treated like unrecoverable failures for a single mistake at 50% of their hours in training get washed out. Thankfully I got through tower somehow, but decided at 75% of my radar hours that they wouldn’t certify me. I shotgunned ERRs under the old system to VFR towers and a level 6 one took me a few weeks later. Some/most controllers at my old facility treated me like I was the bad guy for leaving, and wished I shouldn’t be able to do that so they could have washed me out, and told that to my face. Trained for 2.5 years at that facility without certification, and got certified in 2 months at the new one. It was amazing to see the culture difference in the two facilities, and pulling the plug was the best move I made in my career. That first facility still has a ~60% checkout rate to this day, roughly 5 years later, and the other one has had ~95% consistently for years.

And that’s why I pay attention to certification rates. This has been my Ted talk.

Homsar said:

Those make sense. I guess I had the opposite experience: Started at a level 6 up/down with a 55% checkout rate, was shocked at how toxic the culture was there and couldn’t believe the FAA was like this, went from the bottom to the second to bottom in seniority and back multiple times after watching people treated like unrecoverable failures for a single mistake at 50% of their hours in training get washed out. Thankfully I got through tower somehow, but decided at 75% of my radar hours that they wouldn’t certify me. I shotgunned ERRs under the old system to VFR towers and a level 6 one took me a few weeks later. Some/most controllers at my old facility treated me like I was the bad guy for leaving, and wished I shouldn’t be able to do that so they could have washed me out, and told that to my face. Trained for 2.5 years at that facility without certification, and got certified in 2 months at the new one. It was amazing to see the culture difference in the two facilities, and pulling the plug was the best move I made in my career. That first facility still has a ~60% checkout rate to this day, roughly 5 years later, and the other one has had ~95% consistently for years.

And that’s why I pay attention to certification rates. This has been my Ted talk.

You hit the nail on the head, culture. The culture today at some (not all) facilities is exceptionally toxic to the point where personal happiness is nonexistent. I could go on for hours but suffice to say many people choose to search for alternative paths without losing that retirement.

GulfCharlie said:

You hit the nail on the head, culture. The culture today at some (not all) facilities is exceptionally toxic to the point where personal happiness is nonexistent. I could go on for hours but suffice to say many people choose to search for alternative paths without losing that retirement.

Yeah, it’s nuts, and when I see levels 5-6 have ~50-60% checkout rates, I feel like it’s a bad culture issue than anything else. I’ve met others who have been at a low level, low certification facility, and I’ve heard the same stories as I tell.

Homsar said:

Yeah, it’s nuts, and when I see levels 5-6 have ~50-60% checkout rates, I feel like it’s a bad culture issue than anything else. I’ve met others who have been at a low level, low certification facility, and I’ve heard the same stories as I tell.

Arriving at work, dreading going through the front gate, people more concerned with the drama of the day than working the planes... Been there brother.

Homsar said:

Those make sense. I guess I had the opposite experience: Started at a level 6 up/down with a 55% checkout rate, was shocked at how toxic the culture was there and couldn’t believe the FAA was like this, went from the bottom to the second to bottom in seniority and back multiple times after watching people treated like unrecoverable failures for a single mistake at 50% of their hours in training get washed out. Thankfully I got through tower somehow, but decided at 75% of my radar hours that they wouldn’t certify me. I shotgunned ERRs under the old system to VFR towers and a level 6 one took me a few weeks later. Some/most controllers at my old facility treated me like I was the bad guy for leaving, and wished I shouldn’t be able to do that so they could have washed me out, and told that to my face. Trained for 2.5 years at that facility without certification, and got certified in 2 months at the new one. It was amazing to see the culture difference in the two facilities, and pulling the plug was the best move I made in my career. That first facility still has a ~60% checkout rate to this day, roughly 5 years later, and the other one has had ~95% consistently for years.

And that’s why I pay attention to certification rates. This has been my Ted talk.

MWH?

flypilot said:

Flying Cloud might sound like it sucks cause it’s in Minnesota and hella cold in the winter, but Minnesota is a fantastic place to live. They have a quick checkout time and seem to release people a lot. It was my #1 want if it would’ve been on my

Homsar said:

Those make sense. I guess I had the opposite experience: Started at a level 6 up/down with a 55% checkout rate, was shocked at how toxic the culture was there and couldn’t believe the FAA was like this, went from the bottom to the second to bottom in seniority and back multiple times after watching people treated like unrecoverable failures for a single mistake at 50% of their hours in training get washed out. Thankfully I got through tower somehow, but decided at 75% of my radar hours that they wouldn’t certify me. I shotgunned ERRs under the old system to VFR towers and a level 6 one took me a few weeks later. Some/most controllers at my old facility treated me like I was the bad guy for leaving, and wished I shouldn’t be able to do that so they could have washed me out, and told that to my face. Trained for 2.5 years at that facility without certification, and got certified in 2 months at the new one. It was amazing to see the culture difference in the two facilities, and pulling the plug was the best move I made in my career. That first facility still has a ~60% checkout rate to this day, roughly 5 years later, and the other one has had ~95% consistently for years.

And that’s why I pay attention to certification rates. This has been my Ted talk.

All this is true, luckily shit hole facilities like that are being eradicated, either by the old dinosaur fucks there retiring and screwing the tax payers out of an inflated pension from their high three set up by the green book, or by the consolidation process.

Homsar said:

Those make sense. I guess I had the opposite experience: Started at a level 6 up/down with a 55% checkout rate, was shocked at how toxic the culture was there and couldn’t believe the FAA was like this, went from the bottom to the second to bottom in seniority and back multiple times after watching people treated like unrecoverable failures for a single mistake at 50% of their hours in training get washed out. Thankfully I got through tower somehow, but decided at 75% of my radar hours that they wouldn’t certify me. I shotgunned ERRs under the old system to VFR towers and a level 6 one took me a few weeks later. Some/most controllers at my old facility treated me like I was the bad guy for leaving, and wished I shouldn’t be able to do that so they could have washed me out, and told that to my face. Trained for 2.5 years at that facility without certification, and got certified in 2 months at the new one. It was amazing to see the culture difference in the two facilities, and pulling the plug was the best move I made in my career. That first facility still has a ~60% checkout rate to this day, roughly 5 years later, and the other one has had ~95% consistently for years.

And that’s why I pay attention to certification rates. This has been my Ted talk.

Dude, name names lol. You don't work there anymore you really dont want people to know which places to stay the F away from?

Dolan said:

Dude, name names lol. You don't work there anymore you really dont want people to know which places to stay the F away from?

Work there or not, this career field is tiny. It’ll take 20 minutes for that Fac to catch wind, a few phone calls and that dudes life is now hell again from god knows who. They gave you the tips on what to look for, the resources are here. Interested in a place? Look at their success rates.

Shikaka said:

MWH?

Nope.

Dolan said:

Dude, name names lol. You don't work there anymore you really dont want people to know which places to stay the F away from?

What CK said. Look through my post history and I’m sure you can find enough clues, but the lesson here is to take training success rates with more than a grain of salt.

Homsar said:

Nope.

What CK said. Look through my post history and I’m sure you can find enough clues, but the lesson here is to take training success rates with more than a grain of salt.

Oh FAR?

I get what you're saying, like BGR has a 70%, a 5 or 6 up/down isn't a level 4 of either so why such a miserable pass rate.

GulfCharlie said:

You hit the nail on the head, culture. The culture today at some (not all) facilities is exceptionally toxic to the point where personal happiness is nonexistent. I could go on for hours but suffice to say many people choose to search for alternative paths without losing that retirement.

Yep. When I was in training, it was the status quo to belittle and mock everything the trainee was doing to put them down and remind them of their place. Once most of the new wave got certified and started training, they did the same thing to the next batch of people with the mindset of “I got treated this way, so you will too”, continuing the cycle. Then people step on me while I’m training to belittle the dev and that’s just not how I want to operate. It’s cyclical and then people get more toxic when they’ve washed their potential replacements and can’t transfer on.