The woeful unpreparedness of Management

[CaptainObvious]

There is ZERO reason for a standalone tower to be a higher facility level than their standalone tracon. None.

Unless it’s a VFR tower that does pattern work all the time. This argument tends to come from folks who’ve spent their whole careers in the radar environment.

 

[GulfCharlie]

The redundancy requirement still kills the possibility of making 3 crews work at a lot of level 4-6 facilities. Even if a 16 or 18-hour facility combined to a single position but you needed 3 CICs during most of the day to protect against ATC limited, you'd need 18 CICs to have 3 crews of 6. A lot of small facilities don't have anywhere near that number.

Then eliminate mids. Screw what the States want, it is all Federal. That should solve the problem.

Wait wait guys so you are telling me the FAA and NATCA got together and collaboratively decided on a plan that the smaller/non core 30 facilites can't really abide by, and are telling those of us at those smaller facilities too bad you'll just have to deal with it?

I'm shocked. Just shocked.

Back in line there peon, pay your PAC money and be grateful to have #BestJobInTheWorld

 

[Super Salt]

I look forward to Monday when absolutely nothing has changed, aside from the increase of cases and the death toll rising. Business as usual, always.

 

[CaptainObvious]

The redundancy requirement still kills the possibility of making 3 crews work at a lot of level 4-6 facilities. Even if a 16 or 18-hour facility combined to a single position but you needed 3 CICs during most of the day to protect against ATC limited, you'd need 18 CICs to have 3 crews of 6. A lot of small facilities don't have anywhere near that number.

Then run with an FLM and no CIC. These times should facilitate creative scheduling. Even the center is running with a single FLM at the front and no CIC in the area

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Back in line there peon, pay your PAC money and be grateful to have #BestJobInTheWorld

PAC money? Lol they'll be lucky to get dues money out of me when this is all said and done

 

[GulfCharlie]

PAC money? Lol they'll be lucky to get dues money out of me when this is all said and done

To think I once maxed my PAC ?...

Then run with an FLM and no CIC. These times should facilitate creative scheduling. Even the center is running with a single FLM at the front and no CIC in the area

I concur... But you know FLM's are not there for the operation...

 

[Shikaka]

The higher-ups told us they can't accept a proposal for rotating crews if one person calling out sick would result in ATC limited. Anybody else's facility get this guidance? It seems really self defeating; 2 crews aren't going to do any good if one goes down, and I doubt any small facility has that much staffing to make 3 crews AND cover for people banging in.

Same here, they've shot down the ideas of a standalone in the tower (which traffic is dead so why not) and closing the mids. Even though our overlying fac has radar to the ground and gets paid too much.

 

[yup]

The redundancy requirement still kills the possibility of making 3 crews work at a lot of level 4-6 facilities. Even if a 16 or 18-hour facility combined to a single position but you needed 3 CICs during most of the day to protect against ATC limited, you'd need 18 CICs to have 3 crews of 6.

I'm going to write this out and see if I can come up with something coherent... my facility is open 16 hours a day. We only ever staff two positions, tower and radar, which can theoretically be combined into one single person if traffic is light enough.

So let’s say, absolute bare bones, you run two people per shift—you combine up into one person for lunch/as needed but otherwise your TOP is going to be close to 8 hours a day, we’re in an emergency so suck it up. Now you need a morning shift (2) and an evening shift (2). Ideally you want to have A/B/C crews, five on ten off, so that’s 12 people. I don’t think we’re quite at 12 CPCs, but we’re close, and you can have the two supes be part the schedule so that drops you down to 10 CPCs needed (assuming all CPCs also have their CIC).



But maybe you don’t want to run quite so close to the edge, in case someone gets COVID and their buddy (and possibly their morning/evening counterparts) needs to be quarantined. So drop back down to just A/B crews, five on five off, now you need 8 CPCs (or only 6 if the supes are in the mix) and the rest of your facility, which is maybe another two or three bodies, can be at home on standby for when someone tests positive.



So yeah, theoretically doable. It would suck pretty bad though. And like you said, if you need 24-hour staffing now you have to have 18 CPCs. Ouch.

Same here, they've shot down the ideas of a standalone in the tower (which traffic is dead so why not) and closing the mids.

Well, that throws a wrench in my brilliant plan.

 

[CF]

We won’t be able to run 3 crews because they still want us to do 2 people in the mid. Which doesn’t make any sense. We’re not open 24/7 because we’re busy at night, we’re a divert option for a major airport. Just have one person work the fist few hours then have them go sit on the couch next to a phone and if they are needed then have the tracon call them.

 

[Stinger]

So for anyone:
Anyone going to 1-person mids?
Anyone reducing facility hours?
5 days on, 10 off like the guidance says?
5 on, 5 off?
Someone calls in sick; call in OT?

 

[CaptainObvious]

So for anyone:
Anyone going to 1-person mids?
Anyone reducing facility hours?
5 days on, 10 off like the guidance says?
5 on, 5 off?
Someone calls in sick; call in OT?

5 on 10 off no CIC, 3 person mid

 

[Stinger]

5 on 10 off no CIC, 3 person mid

Did anyone ask about you dropping down to a two-person mid?

 

[Dousand24]

So for anyone:
Anyone going to 1-person mids?
Anyone reducing facility hours?
5 days on, 10 off like the guidance says?
5 on, 5 off?
Someone calls in sick; call in OT?

5 on, 5 off

 

[CaptainObvious]

Did anyone ask about you dropping down to a two-person mid?

Yeah, but it’s for extra coverage in case someone goes down in the mid

 

[fknlo]

So for anyone:
Anyone going to 1-person mids?
Anyone reducing facility hours?
5 days on, 10 off like the guidance says?
5 on, 5 off?
Someone calls in sick; call in OT?

5 on, 10 off. 3 person mids to cover a sick leave hit. No one can be recalled outside of a crew getting the roni. If you take a sick leave you take a sick leave hit. Supposedly there will be TMI's to accommodate for staffing.

 

[Super Salt]

So far, 5 on, 5 off.
Two crews.
No luck with changing facility hours.
Complete fear and paranoia of going ATC-Anything.

 

[CaptainObvious]

5 on, 10 off. 3 person mids to cover a sick leave hit. No one can be recalled outside of a crew getting the roni. If you take a sick leave you take a sick leave hit. Supposedly there will be TMI's to accommodate for staffing.

Yeah no one is recallable unless King Derpy declares mission accomplished on the skunk beer virus

So far, 5 on, 5 off.
Two crews.
No luck with changing facility hours.
Complete fear and paranoia of going ATC-Anything.

Just do it. Who cares if you’re atc zero

 

[Hissmeowra]

I'd say if you don't have enough staffing to create 3 crews even after combining all positions, you should just get shut down.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I'd say if you don't have enough staffing to create 3 crews even after combining all positions, you should just get shut down.

This is good

 

[BrocolliRob]

Sounds like 5 on 10 off, single person mid, 3 crews but we still don’t have anything firm.