Pushed to the brink? Another NYT article rehashes all the problems that haven't changed since before Reagan and PATCO

[CoffeeIV]

The numbers regarding the NCEPT do not lie, check them out sometime. I have known a few in my life that knocked off within a year or two of retirement.

I have and I made a big post about it. Tons of people are trying to go to the same highly sought after facilities. NCEPT has some problems but most of you are doom and gloom.

 

[dingalings99]

The FAA had 57,956 applications for 1,500 open air traffic controller positions in 2022.

You really think they're going to up the pay just to keep less than 1,000 controllers from quitting or retiring? I think most of you are intentionally trying to ignore the fact that you're replaceable and there isn't thousands lining up to take your spot at any given moment. We get paid very well and I'm really curious how some of you think we don't. When I get the time, I'm going to make a nice spreadsheet and show how we're ahead of inflation nearly every single year and those saying we aren't are liars. You can't negotiate based on lies and that's why we aren't going to get a huge raise like some of you dream of.

well yes because they do the same thing in the military by offering retention bonuses because retention as well as new hires are components of staffing

this is from the natca email sent today about the nyt article

Last month, the FAA’s independent National Airspace System Safety Review Team reinforced the OIG’s finding when it concluded in its report that under FAA’s most recent CWP submitted to Congress, “when retirements and other attrition is accounted for, the hiring plan produces a negligible improvement over today’s understaffed levels, resulting in a net increase of fewer than 200 air traffic controllers by 2032.”

so if theres only gonna be 200 more controllers in 9 years then if 20 people quit or retire due to pay or being stuck in a black hole thats a 10% loss to that net number which is huge

conversely if you have 20 people staying on longer because the pay is better thats a 10% increase lol these are not insignificant numbers when the overall number is so low

 

[CoffeeIV]

Anyone who works at a high level large facility for any period of time knows many people who have died within a year of retiring. This is an extremely common occurrence and many 5 letter fixes on SIDS & STARS are named after these people. His posts are obvious trolling or else he is in a bubble at the slowest level 4 in the NAS & feels self loathing for how much he makes to do nothing

Most fixes are named after active controllers or those that helped design certain SIDS/arrivals. But sure. Everyone dies in a year after retiring yet you cant post a shred of proof.

 

[32andBelow]

I don't think transferring is as hard as most of you make it out to be. My up/down had one of the longest training times in the country and managed to have 9 people transfer in the 3 years I was there. If you apply for MCO, sorry you probably aren't getting there unless you hardship since everyone else wants that facility too.

Also. People keep saying we die early but where's the actual proof. How much of this was due to all the smoking back in the day? Id argue most controllers are pretty healthy. We had like 3 obese people out of 70 people at the facilities I've been at. Lots of going to the gym, running, biking, etc. I think this "early death" thing is just something you guys like to regurgitate.

Bruh you literally can’t leave ANY center currently

 

[Top5fatcat]

Soooo....

Who else feels on the BRINK & wants to drop a dime to Emily Steel!? Phone lines are open call now ☎️

 

[Raise when?]

Anyone who works at a high level large facility for any period of time knows many people who have died within a year of retiring. This is an extremely common occurrence and many 5 letter fixes on SIDS & STARS are named after these people. His posts are obvious trolling or else he is in a bubble at the slowest level 4 in the NAS & feels self loathing for how much he makes to do nothing

Preach brotha

 

[jdatc]

Anyone who works at a high level large facility for any period of time knows many people who have died within a year of retiring. This is an extremely common occurrence and many 5 letter fixes on SIDS & STARS are named after these people. His posts are obvious trolling or else he is in a bubble at the slowest level 4 in the NAS & feels self loathing for how much he makes to do nothing

First one from my first facility I remember, he died less then 2 years after retirement. Best part is he hated directs, and later I used the hell out of that fix sending people direct instead of a heading to join. There are a few others, but some of those died while still working. That guy sure was a cantankerous fuck.

 

[GulfCharlie]

I have and I made a big post about it. Tons of people are trying to go to the same highly sought after facilities. NCEPT has some problems but most of you are doom and gloom.

I do not have a "doom and gloom" attitude but it needs to be fixed. This "robust transfer system" is indeed a lie.

Most fixes are named after active controllers or those that helped design certain SIDS/arrivals. But sure. Everyone dies in a year after retiring yet you cant post a shred of proof.

Go back to the military. Every fix I have worked, known, or even helped design is named after a dead controller.

 

[Raise when?]

I do not have a "doom and gloom" attitude but it needs to be fixed. This "robust transfer system" is indeed a lie.

Go back to the military. Every fix I have worked, known, or even helped design is named after a dead controller.

Thank you sir for saying what needed to be said

 

[Soul_Controller]

Imagine as a young person you are presented with a couple opportunities. First, you go to school for four years and get a degree and get your first job starting at $130,000. Second, you can apply to become an air traffic controller. If you don’t know if you will get the job or not and if you do, when? Then you are sent off far from home and make 70-80k as a CPC. You then wish to transfer back home, but realize you are stuck. You start to kick yourself because in that same timeframe, you could’ve went to school and got a degree. Many people in my life have done just that and have received jobs straight out of college starting at 180-200k. This is the dilemma the FAA faces. This is what our profession is up against. We need to attract bright minds, and that would entail higher pay. That is why, Coffee, we are underpaid. The 58,000 applicants mean nothing if they are burger flippers and shelf stockers.

How much do you think a four year degree costs?

IMO the only real argument for a pay increase is current CPC attrition.
Hiring has always been about the bottle neck at academy. ATC isn't some regular job where the guy with the best resume automatically gets picked for the job and starts working airplanes tomorrow. The guy with the best resume still has to compete with the burger flipper that scored best qualified.

 

[32andBelow]

How much do you think a four year degree costs?

IMO the only real argument for a pay increase is current CPC attrition.
Hiring has always been about the bottle neck at academy. ATC isn't some regular job where the guy with the best resume automatically gets picked for the job and starts working airplanes tomorrow. The guy with the best resume still has to compete with the burger flipper that scored best qualified.

The argument for an increase is that yesterdays price is not todays price

 

[PooseMaGoose]

I don't think transferring is as hard as most of you make it out to be. My up/down had one of the longest training times in the country and managed to have 9 people transfer in the 3 years I was there. If you apply for MCO, sorry you probably aren't getting there unless you hardship since everyone else wants that facility too.

Also. People keep saying we die early but where's the actual proof. How much of this was due to all the smoking back in the day? Id argue most controllers are pretty healthy. We had like 3 obese people out of 70 people at the facilities I've been at. Lots of going to the gym, running, biking, etc. I think this "early death" thing is just something you guys like to regurgitate.

Guys, seriously… let’s get it together. CoffeeIV says it’s not that hard to transfer. Plus he knows a couple people that own a bicycle..

It’s unreal that you all want to believe your own lying eyes and personal experiences over his anecdotal forum posts. Sheesh.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Go back to the military. Every fix I have worked, known, or even helped design is named after a dead controller.

Agree to disagree. Every fix on our SIDS is after a tower or tracon controller that isn't dead. I know there was an arrival named after a ZNY dude and last I checked he wasn't dead either. In fact, I don't know a single fix at either FAA facility that was named after a dead dude.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Agree to disagree. Every fix on our SIDS is after a tower or tracon controller that isn't dead. I know there was an arrival named after a ZNY dude and last I checked he wasn't dead either. In fact, I don't know a single fix at either FAA facility that was named after a dead dude.

I can name at least 5 off my last facility.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Guys, seriously… let’s get it together. CoffeeIV says it’s not that hard to transfer. Plus he knows a couple people that own a bicycle..

It’s unreal that you all want to believe your own lying eyes and personal experiences over his anecdotal forum posts. Sheesh.

I transferred under NCEPT sorry you chose a highly sought after facility that you won't get.

 

[Move78]

The applicants who apply are sold on a lie. They are sold on a lie of being able to easily transfer after paying "their dues" to their first facility. They are sold on a lie that this job has a certain amount of prestige without realising the cost to their personal lives or marriages, or the odds of dying past retirement. They are sold on a lie that the agency actually is competent and staffed by management that will reward hard work and commitment to the "company" when all that matters is the fact that a staffing trigger is not initiated.

WhoTF told them any of that?

 

[32andBelow]

WhoTF told them any of that?

They tell you that at the academy

 

[AlmostEligible]

I transferred under NCEPT sorry you chose a highly sought after facility that you won't get.

I have transferred twice via NCEPT, doesn't change the fact that it's horrible. Currently no center controllers can even move. So your argument of people choosing highly desirable facilities is irrelevant when there are 30-40 facilities if not more that won't release anyone no matter where they are trying to go. You need a better argument.

 

[Move78]

They tell you that at the academy

Who’s they?

 

[32andBelow]

Who’s they?

The placement people that come in and talk about the list