Let’s bust this union then. It is not representing us in good faith. 2005 is not 2024, and Carr is not our president .
Serious New N90 to EWR June 1, 2024, and June 30, 2024
- Thread starter GulfCharlie
- Start date
32andBelow
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 9,334
Teamsters when
- Messages
- 126
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
I can’t wait to read or watch on the news the absolute shitshow that’s coming with EWR/TEB traffic once EWR is out of N90. Could someone that’s still there tell me if the agency rewrote the EWR area SOP to address the shared airspace with the LGA area? Will the “special use” line still be in effect?
You guys should put a pay per view live feed in the area. I’d pay good money to watch the circus anytime LGA has to go to the ILS13.
Edited to add: If Trump does win the election, there will be an extra bonus circus show when they reactivate the Bedmister TFR, but now with a class B that’s split in two facilities. /popcorn
You guys should put a pay per view live feed in the area. I’d pay good money to watch the circus anytime LGA has to go to the ILS13.
Edited to add: If Trump does win the election, there will be an extra bonus circus show when they reactivate the Bedmister TFR, but now with a class B that’s split in two facilities. /popcorn
Dontbotherme
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 876
That same Carr led union that wouldn’t support ATL/A80 getting level 13 pay because , “Chicago will get it first.” Well, ATL/A80 controllers won that suit and received back pay while Chicago facilities never came close to reaching the max of the 12 band. Then, the Agency and Union negotiated the top of the level 12 band and it is now “unreachable.” There’s no reason to split the N90 facility and there is no reason other facilities aren’t equally important and get the same representation and support.
This is what I am wondering about, has the agency thought at all about how this will change procedures and coordination? Will calls that are normally happening on the override now be on a shout line between the two facilities?! What about TMU, is it now split between the two facilities? What about automation between the two facilities, is that going to be a complete disaster as well? Seems crazy to me to split a Bravo between two facilities on such short notice.
I can’t imagine the June dates hold, this is going to be a mess.
inthrewtheoutdor
Active Member
- Messages
- 61
They're selling them the same line Reagans sold the airlines during the strike. Hold out through this short term 1-2 year pain in profits for long term gain and promises of better staffing long term.
- Messages
- 2,096
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
Raise when?
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 488
Sure would be a shame if they "quiet quit" like so many other professions do when they aren't compensated fairly enough. You know how hard it is to answer shout lines sometimes when you're inundated by other tasks like soliciting/disseminating pireps, and issuing precipitation
SquawkHijack
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 171
He’s up for election… this is a desperate attempt to pander for votes and to solve the N90 problem and isn’t propagating to any of the rest of us. What else has he done his last entire term that’s been noteworthy? A reauthrization bill that hasn’t passed yet? He’s rubber-stamped everything that’s came across his desk from the agency and calls that, “collaboration.” Wipe the stars outta your eyes, if he had plans that had us in his best interests he’d have at least attempted to act on them already.
Pending certification** that’s an important factor considering the amount of N90 washouts because trainers don’t want to give up their 6th day pay/OT. I could be wrong but I feel like this could definitely not amount to any benefit. We shall see!
Last edited:
- Messages
- 2,096
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
Learn to read. That’s for current EWR area CPC’s who take the transfer.
Also, considering 60% of the current EWR area CPC’s (if not the whole building) all certified in the last 5 years or so, clearly your impression of what takes place at N90 would be misguided. Your entire comment shows a complete lack of understanding of what is happening or being proposed to happen.
Phillyman2633
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 1,099
The FAA has the right to assign employment at will and PCS is something that was already negotiated for by the union. The FAA doesn't "have to" do shit
HurryUpandWait
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 259
I may be naïve but since whitaker has been the faa admin it feels like he is more open on acknowledging the administrations wrong doings over the recent years. Which is trending for good negotiations for the new contract. It probably is false though. I don't know how long Arel has been in charge of the ATO but he has been an FAA guy for his whole career
SquawkHijack
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 171
I read what’s proposed to happen, I’m saying getting their replacements certified in training. Why would I bring up a stipulation about pending certification for a bunch of certified controllers? Also how exactly do you know how many have certified at N90 in the last 5 years regardless of area? Have you seen their numbers on the PPT?
- Messages
- 2,096
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
we’ll then you really don’t get it because if you’re not one those certified controllers being moved this doesn’t apply to you
Uh, cause Ive been in the EWR area for the last 10 years
Raise when?
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 488
They should DO SHIT though
SquawkHijack
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 171
Oh okay so do you care to answer my question now about how many have certified in the last 5 years or remain mum about numbers after your claim? N90 facility numbers look pretty bad still, about the worst in the entire NAS actually, just saying…
- Messages
- 2,096
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
No I don’t have the exact numbers at the top of my head. What I can say is N90 has been certifying people at the highest rate in the NAS behind ZDC for the past several years. Our lowest moment was 2021 with the last wave of retirements. Until then new certs were not keeping up with attrition from retirements. We have 33 CPC’s in my area currently and in 2021/22 we had 27. That is despite Covid delays and then them taking all our trainees away for over a year when this PHL thing was supposed to first happen and 3 people to sup jobs.
Last edited:
inthrewtheoutdor
Active Member
- Messages
- 61
There was a wave of retirements leading up to 2018/2019. FAA got these nightmare staffing predictions due to the old certification rate (mostly to blame in extremely sporadic trainees inbound) Plus the impending retirements. N90 certification went up at this time over the following 5 years hence why we've beaten the predicted staffing rate by a lot and why the FAA is angry and doesn't want to Admit defeat.
There's now a large long gap before future retirements start up (again the gap of these 2 waves is directly correlated to FAA induced lack of trainees being sent to N90 years ago) and our current checkout rate will put our staffing at very healthy levels, probably highest ever. FAA spent too much money and didnt listen to our facts and now refuses to turn back.
Delays due to N90 have been near 0 for 2 years, this move will literally put the delay numbers back a decade.
Also the washout for OT rumor was old 10 years ago when the majority of that era of supposed controllers doing such a ridiculous thing was already retired.
People aren't getting the facts
Airlines and FAA are in bed together.
Even with the FAA wanting to manipulate the numbers to make N90 look bad.
How many summers now ZNY or ZDC causing delays but HQ want to try and force the OMs to put in staffing triggers to give the stat to N90 as cause of delays. It's insane manipulation.
Luckily OMs and even the ATM have fought against this and that's how N90 literally can't be blamed for any delays.
Even when N90 presents this to the airlines, they look FAA for a response and say no no it's BS trust us.
I get a lot of people like to shit all over N90 but this isn't the right issue to do it. N90 doesn't want to move, the controllers think its reckless and have worked their asses off for 5 years certifying and the FAA refused to acknowledge historical improvements.
They're likely wont be more than 5-8 volunteers if I had to guess. It will fail and this get dragged out.
Its bad for the union, its a terrible precedent that would allow FAA to ignore all reality and statistics to waste taxpayers money on moves made by upper management completely out of touch with the operation.
We all need to stand together here.
There's now a large long gap before future retirements start up (again the gap of these 2 waves is directly correlated to FAA induced lack of trainees being sent to N90 years ago) and our current checkout rate will put our staffing at very healthy levels, probably highest ever. FAA spent too much money and didnt listen to our facts and now refuses to turn back.
Delays due to N90 have been near 0 for 2 years, this move will literally put the delay numbers back a decade.
Also the washout for OT rumor was old 10 years ago when the majority of that era of supposed controllers doing such a ridiculous thing was already retired.
People aren't getting the facts
Airlines and FAA are in bed together.
Even with the FAA wanting to manipulate the numbers to make N90 look bad.
How many summers now ZNY or ZDC causing delays but HQ want to try and force the OMs to put in staffing triggers to give the stat to N90 as cause of delays. It's insane manipulation.
Luckily OMs and even the ATM have fought against this and that's how N90 literally can't be blamed for any delays.
Even when N90 presents this to the airlines, they look FAA for a response and say no no it's BS trust us.
I get a lot of people like to shit all over N90 but this isn't the right issue to do it. N90 doesn't want to move, the controllers think its reckless and have worked their asses off for 5 years certifying and the FAA refused to acknowledge historical improvements.
They're likely wont be more than 5-8 volunteers if I had to guess. It will fail and this get dragged out.
Its bad for the union, its a terrible precedent that would allow FAA to ignore all reality and statistics to waste taxpayers money on moves made by upper management completely out of touch with the operation.
We all need to stand together here.
Last edited:
HurryUpandWait
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 259
Periculant
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 187
You are happy with the N90 negotiations but... Are the N90 members happy with the negotiations?
All due respect... Your opinion is irrelevant based on how the N90 negotiations went. If our brothers and sisters at N90 are happy/unhappy with the negotiations that is all that matters. It would seem you have no horse in this race since you are not from N90. If N90 membership are discontent then Rich's negotiations, then he failed them, regardless of your opinion on the matter.
