NCEPT going away?

A bit off topic, but if your facility's staffing number is too high is there anything you can do about it or can only management and the union rep change it?
Only the ATM, hopefully in conjunction with the facility rep, can change the staffing number
 
I understand the complaints, but why limit people to the track they’re set on. Centers only want center people, if you’re low level tower, radar facilities don’t want you. So you’re at a level 5 tower, that’s all you’re worth? It’s discriminatory

We have had up-down people come here and do well, as well as TRACON only folks. At the same time, it only takes about half the time (or less) to train someone with prior radar experience. Prior to NCEPT, our ATMs usually wouldn’t even consider a ERR from someone with no radar experience specifically because of the time required to train them.

Someone that has only worked a tower just needs to go somewhere and pick up some radar experience first, or as a word of advice to someone in the hiring process or thinking about applying, be flexible to the enroute option when you are hired on as well.
 
If you think NCEPT prevents the FAA and NATCA from blacklisting you then you are smoking crack. Sure if you put in for some facility that needs more people than ERR there and your facility can let you go then you can probably force your way in. But if you want to actually get somewhere, lol good luck!!! Definitely still good ole boy, becasue you still need to know people or politic/kiss ass to get high enough on the ranking list. If you Want to go someplace that can only pick up one or two people well then you better get on your knees, if you’re trying to get somewhere That can pick up 150 people and you can be let go from your facility well then yeah good for you but there’s a reason they need 150 people and it’s because you probably aren’t ERRing there either
 
Someone that has only worked a tower just needs to go somewhere and pick up some radar experience first, or as a word of advice to someone in the hiring process or thinking about applying, be flexible to the enroute option when you are hired on as well.
 

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Attitude has a long way to go as well. I get it. No one really chose to end up at their facility -- well, I guess now you kind of have a say but for the most part...you get what you get. A Level 5 tower only does take a long time to train at a center but no longer than someone straight from the academy so I don't think it should be held against someone. The difference is that you get some people that think their Level 5 CPC means something at a center -- it doesn't.

My wife wanted to get back to Atlanta. I had paperwork for the center in for a few years. She kept trying to get me to put in for A80 and I finally told her I would but then by the Grace of God, I got picked up for the center. I never would have walked into A80 or any terminal facility acting like I knew what was going on. You shouldn't do the reverse either.
 
To be fair, in the lowly level 5 tower here, stop sending your center article 61's to us. They wash out here too, I'd like to leave.
If the center washouts get a second chance at a terminal facility, it's only fair that the tower washouts should get the same consideration. Give them an enroute facility, send them to the academy, and put them in training at the center.
They're completely different styles of ATC...Level 5 tower washout has just as good a chance at certifying at the center compared to a center washout certifying at the Level 5 tower.
 
If the center washouts get a second chance at a terminal facility, it's only fair that the tower washouts should get the same consideration. Give them an enroute facility, send them to the academy, and put them in training at the center.
They're completely different styles of ATC...Level 5 tower washout has just as good a chance at certifying at the center compared to a center washout certifying at the Level 5 tower.
The only problem is i think this could lead to people failing intentionally just to get out of terrible locations. Not a bad setup to get out of a level 5 facility in the middle of nowhere and get to move up to a level 12.
 
If the center washouts get a second chance at a terminal facility, it's only fair that the tower washouts should get the same consideration. Give them an enroute facility, send them to the academy, and put them in training at the center.
They're completely different styles of ATC...Level 5 tower washout has just as good a chance at certifying at the center compared to a center washout certifying at the Level 5 tower.

I wouldn't be too positive about that, level 5 with a 50% washout rate mostly due to those center washouts.

Attitude has a long way to go as well. I get it. No one really chose to end up at their facility -- well, I guess now you kind of have a say but for the most part...you get what you get. A Level 5 tower only does take a long time to train at a center but no longer than someone straight from the academy so I don't think it should be held against someone. The difference is that you get some people that think their Level 5 CPC means something at a center -- it doesn't.

My wife wanted to get back to Atlanta. I had paperwork for the center in for a few years. She kept trying to get me to put in for A80 and I finally told her I would but then by the Grace of God, I got picked up for the center. I never would have walked into A80 or any terminal facility acting like I knew what was going on. You shouldn't do the reverse either.

I was going to say, we had one center washout that certified before the winter storms hit here. Said he knows how to work in winter weather, started giving him shit for sequencing plows at the flight levels.
 
NCEPT revolutionized the transferring process for the good.

I guess if you are in one of the good facilities, especially a tower. Since the beginning of NCEPT there are 0 towers that have had no releases available, only 11% of them have had less than 12 total months without a release being available.

Up/Downs are far worse, 16 of them have had never had a single month where they could release someone. 56 of them have had less than 12 months in the last 3 years where they could release anyone.

And then the centers, 3 of them have never had a release opportunity and 7 of them with less than 12 months worth of releases. Although there are more people here locked up than the up downs even since there are more at each facility.

So if you're at a tower you're likely sitting pretty and this all sounds pretty great. If you are elsewhere there is a good chance are are still very fucked by this whole process.
 
If you think NCEPT prevents the FAA and NATCA from blacklisting you then you are smoking crack. Sure if you put in for some facility that needs more people than ERR there and your facility can let you go then you can probably force your way in. But if you want to actually get somewhere, lol good luck!!! Definitely still good ole boy, becasue you still need to know people or politic/kiss ass to get high enough on the ranking list. If you Want to go someplace that can only pick up one or two people well then you better get on your knees, if you’re trying to get somewhere That can pick up 150 people and you can be let go from your facility well then yeah good for you but there’s a reason they need 150 people and it’s because you probably aren’t ERRing there either

What this guy said. PushingTin is oblivious if they think this fixed any of the politics that plague the system. The only thing that changed from the old way is that the staffing lottery can make or break your career. People are gaming the system applying to LAX or N90 and turning it down to stop other people from leaving until the facility they really want to get to opens up. It’s all a bunch of crap. This system and the old.

If you make us fill out thre rating of ATC then use the F’ing thing so at least we will have an idea of where we fall and what to do to improve our odds. Of course the downside of that is, there are a lot of shitty controllers that look great on paper.
 
level 5 with a 50% washout rate mostly due to those center washouts.
I have seen so many of them that are flat out atrocious.

I guess if you are in one of the good facilities, especially a tower. Since the beginning of NCEPT there are 0 towers that have had no releases available, only 11% of them have had less than 12 total months without a release being available.

Up/Downs are far worse, 16 of them have had never had a single month where they could release someone. 56 of them have had less than 12 months in the last 3 years where they could release anyone.

And then the centers, 3 of them have never had a release opportunity and 7 of them with less than 12 months worth of releases. Although there are more people here locked up than the up downs even since there are more at each facility.

So if you're at a tower you're likely sitting pretty and this all sounds pretty great. If you are elsewhere there is a good chance are are still very fucked by this whole process.

That's the kind of data I love seeing. Nice job! Go back and check BIL though...where are you seeing they could release September-November 2018?
 
Whoops forgot that one. Also pretty atrocious.

That's the kind of data I love seeing. Nice job! Go back and check BIL though...where are you seeing they could release September-November 2018?

Ah yeah, looks like i had the math backwards trying to compensate for the loss of someone pushing a facility below the average. Those edge cases are a little trickier to work out but not as common. Also trying to find out exactly when the policy changed to allow a release if the released person causes a 1 below average number is damn near impossible.
 
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Also trying to find out exactly when the policy changed to allow a release if the released person causes a 1 below average number is damn near impossible.
Exempt status was removed 3rd quarter of 2017. So June of 2017 should be the first NCEPT panel with that rule.
 
....or as a word of advice to someone in the hiring process or thinking about applying, be flexible to the enroute option when you are hired on as well.

Off topic a little, and I won’t steal the thread, but...

As someone who’s in the hiring process, this piqued my curiosity. Do we have much of a say? Other than saying “no” when we are told of our track. And then secondly, do a lot of people really turn it down?
 
Off topic a little, and I won’t steal the thread, but...

As someone who’s in the hiring process, this piqued my curiosity. Do we have much of a say? Other than saying “no” when we are told of our track. And then secondly, do a lot of people really turn it down?
Not really. But it doesn't hurt to ask HR "hey I know I was hired for tower, is it possible to change to enroute?"
Or the other way from enroute to tower. Most likely they'll say you can't switch, but at least you'll know.
 
Not really. But it doesn't hurt to ask HR "hey I know I was hired for tower, is it possible to change to enroute?"
Or the other way from enroute to tower. Most likely they'll say you can't switch, but at least you'll know.

This is also the first time that they've sent out TOLs without a Tower or Enroute assignment. So this is uncharted territory when it comes to requests to switch. For all we know, they may give you a choice when they call to offer you a class date.
 
This is also the first time that they've sent out TOLs without a Tower or Enroute assignment. So this is uncharted territory when it comes to requests to switch. For all we know, they may give you a choice when they call to offer you a class date.
I didn't know these TOLs didn't mention that.
I should have known that, thanks!
 
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