denver0739
Trusted Contributor
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I didn't know these TOLs didn't mention that.
I should have known that, thanks!
I didn’t know others in the past had mentioned that. Any idea why they would have changed it?
I didn't know these TOLs didn't mention that.
I should have known that, thanks!
I didn’t know others in the past had mentioned that. Any idea why they would have changed it?
Exempt status was removed 3rd quarter of 2017. So June of 2017 should be the first NCEPT panel with that rule.
But then again you’re getting into the punishment of employees who didn’t get to choose where they went, and may not be able to leave to get that radar ticket. Or if they are able to get radar experience at a second facility, may not be able to leave that facility
We absolutely need a level cap, preferably at 4 levels. We cap swaps, why not ERRs. People at 8 and 9 up downs may not have got to pick where they wanted to be either. I see zero issue with making someone at a level 5 go get experience at a 8 or 9 before going to a 12. And they wouldn't be getting stuck there because the people coming into the 5s and 6s behind them would also have to climb the ladder. We washed out someone (who as a person was awesome, wish they had made it) in our level 8 up down tower. Tower isn't difficult or busy. That person NESTED to a 5, and within 3 months of certifying, got picked up at an 11 tower. That is f*cked up.
I don't think some kind of restriction is a terrible idea, but that would make en route a lot harder to get into for people that get placed at a low level tower when they get hired.
Kind of a similar point to some of the discussion earlier, but it doesn't really make sense to say a guy that got placed at and certified at a low level tower is less capable of certifying at a center than a new hire.
Aren't they required to go back to OKC to get training if they have only been certified at a tower? I went from a CCF to a Center and my requirement to go to enroute school was waived.I think the 4-level cap is a great idea, but I'd also fully support an exception for Terminal guys wanting to switch to Enroute. Centers are way better set up to train zero-experience people, whereas a level 12 tower really isn't equipped to turn a level 5 CPC into a level 12 CPC.
Well to be fair, the guy who certified at the low level tower didn't spend 4 months in Enroute school, so he'd definitely need to play catchup compared to OTS hires. But I'd guess that, statistically speaking, someone who's already CPCed has better odds of certifying at a center than a random OTS hire.
Aren't they required to go back to OKC to get training if they have only been certified at a tower? I went from a CCF to a Center and my requirement to go to enroute school was waived.
I propose that every employee wishing to transfer gets in one line and assigned a national transfer number. Requirements would be you must be certified at your current facility for one year. After that, if you wish to transfer you apply to transfer and you're issued your national number. When your number reaches the top 25 you will be given a list with all openings in the nation. If you select a 9 or below it will be automatic. Controllers at an 8 or 9 will be automatic for 10 and above. If you are at a 7 and below and you select a 10 or above you will have to go through some evaluation for that facility. If you fail the evaluation you will be offered the list again. If you choose a 10 or above again and fail to pass the evaluation for a second time you will go to the back of the list. If you have no radar experience and want to have the option to select facilities with radar, you must attend RTF or something like it prior to getting a transfer number. If you dont go through the radar training prior to requesting a transfer number you will only be offered tower only openings. This also levels the playing field for up/down BUEs taking longer to check out compared to tower only BUEs. If you get your list and don't wish to transfer to any of the facilities on it, you can submit one facility and be placed on a 180 day hold. If an opening becomes available during that 180 days you get first offer. After 180 days if no opening becomes available you must select from the list or go to the back of the line. If multiple people are "holding" for the same facility, offers would be issued in the order of who would be holding the longest. Releases will be no more than one year. A one time extension of six months can be requested from management but must have justification. The initial number assignment will be made from all the current BUEs with ERRs in and ranked by seniority.
I'm sure more details can be added but I think more people would be satisfied with a system like this. Additionally, it takes out a little of the politics. Feedback is welcomed.
Aren't they required to go back to OKC to get training if they have only been certified at a tower? I went from a CCF to a Center and my requirement to go to enroute school was waived.
National 3120.4 answers those questions:This is done case by case but to save money and get you in the new building the agency and ATM will usually NOT have you go back to OKC when switching options when you are a transferring CPC. In most cases I’ve heard of you have to request it, then really fight for it.
You really think this is more complexed than our current system?A system this convoluted makes u sound like you’re on the fast track to management.
I propose that every employee wishing to transfer gets in one line and assigned a national transfer number. Requirements would be you must be certified at your current facility for one year. After that, if you wish to transfer you apply to transfer and you're issued your national number. When your number reaches the top 25 you will be given a list with all openings in the nation. If you select a 9 or below it will be automatic. Controllers at an 8 or 9 will be automatic for 10 and above. If you are at a 7 and below and you select a 10 or above you will have to go through some evaluation for that facility. If you fail the evaluation you will be offered the list again. If you choose a 10 or above again and fail to pass the evaluation for a second time you will go to the back of the list. If you have no radar experience and want to have the option to select facilities with radar, you must attend RTF or something like it prior to getting a transfer number. If you dont go through the radar training prior to requesting a transfer number you will only be offered tower only openings. This also levels the playing field for up/down BUEs taking longer to check out compared to tower only BUEs. If you get your list and don't wish to transfer to any of the facilities on it, you can submit one facility and be placed on a 180 day hold. If an opening becomes available during that 180 days you get first offer. After 180 days if no opening becomes available you must select from the list or go to the back of the line. If multiple people are "holding" for the same facility, offers would be issued in the order of who would be holding the longest. Releases will be no more than one year. A one time extension of six months can be requested from management but must have justification. The initial number assignment will be made from all the current BUEs with ERRs in and ranked by seniority.
I'm sure more details can be added but I think more people would be satisfied with a system like this. Additionally, it takes out a little of the politics. Feedback is welcomed.
You really think this is more complexed than our current system?
I propose that every employee wishing to transfer gets in one line and assigned a national transfer number. Requirements would be you must be certified at your current facility for one year. After that, if you wish to transfer you apply to transfer and you're issued your national number. When your number reaches the top 25 you will be given a list with all openings in the nation. If you select a 9 or below it will be automatic. Controllers at an 8 or 9 will be automatic for 10 and above. If you are at a 7 and below and you select a 10 or above you will have to go through some evaluation for that facility. If you fail the evaluation you will be offered the list again. If you choose a 10 or above again and fail to pass the evaluation for a second time you will go to the back of the list. If you have no radar experience and want to have the option to select facilities with radar, you must attend RTF or something like it prior to getting a transfer number. If you dont go through the radar training prior to requesting a transfer number you will only be offered tower only openings. This also levels the playing field for up/down BUEs taking longer to check out compared to tower only BUEs. If you get your list and don't wish to transfer to any of the facilities on it, you can submit one facility and be placed on a 180 day hold. If an opening becomes available during that 180 days you get first offer. After 180 days if no opening becomes available you must select from the list or go to the back of the line. If multiple people are "holding" for the same facility, offers would be issued in the order of who would be holding the longest. Releases will be no more than one year. A one time extension of six months can be requested from management but must have justification. The initial number assignment will be made from all the current BUEs with ERRs in and ranked by seniority.
I'm sure more details can be added but I think more people would be satisfied with a system like this. Additionally, it takes out a little of the politics. Feedback is welcomed.
I've seen it done a few times in the last year...enroute cpc to a terminal facility and at the academy for Tower class.Does the “need not” in 2.a mean that I would still have the option to attend the academy after transferring as a CPC or is that off limits? Enroute to Terminal specifically?
Waiting each month for the PPT spreadsheet with columns A through forever, matching that to the monthly facility ranking, seeing if your facility is green, yellow, or red, Cat 1 or CAT 2, submiting the same packet of 15 pages to HR in three regions for all facilities you want to go to every 15 months, then trying to figure out a new least shitty facility you can submit new paperwork to because coworker A who's been in the facility for a cup of coffee submitted paperwork to a facility two spots below your lowest choice. After all that, a coworker who doesn't have paperwork in anywhere puts a hardship in and he's the only one that gets to leave. Oh well, you get to do it all again next month if you're lucky.
You can’t have any system where you don’t sctually get to choose where your going. This isn’t the military.You really think this is more complexed than our current system?