4th quarter 2017

[Mike Kilo]

Shows me that they learn and have the ability to think quickly while they scramble to work themselves out of a hole.

To reiterate I'm talking about the trainees that we all know will not make it, but are continuously granted more and more hours. Ones that have proven that they cannot learn and think quickly etc.

Let me know how atsap works for you in the private ATC corp.

 

[Stinger]

But I do agree that Academy Tower is easier than most vfr towers. Most towers period.

No way. I remember the final Academy problems being like 50-60+ operations in 30 minutes.
If you're at a VFR tower, there's no way you're running that amount of air carrier traffic from Dash 8's to B747s.
If you're at a busy up/down with that kind air carrier traffic, your pattern traffic is almost non-existent.

If Academy Tower was going to be ran like a real facility, they'd have two local controllers if that was the normal amount of traffic.

Let me know how atsap works for you in the private ATC corp.

ATSAP is a joke anyway for how most people use it. I had an error, I'm not going to tell anyone about it, but I'll fill out this form and I'll be protected if it's ever looked at?
And technical issues can be fixed sooner with people filling out ATSAPs? Facility management should take the lead on that and when they pass an issue up to the district, it should be looked at.....don't wait for ATSAPs to be filed before issues are investigated.

 

[Mike Kilo]

If academy is harder then we should be able to cut tower training programs down to about five weeks? Academy tower is very simple. Every hole on final can be utilized. Same spacing and speed. You only get vfr traffic from one side of the airport at one of three spots. It's all sequenced for you as long as you don't screw it up. Yes there are more operations, but the updown I worked was more complex.

 

[Mike Kilo]

And yes atsap allows people to essentially fuck up as much as they want as long as they screw up differently and don't indicate neglect. With a privatized system I believe there will be more accountability, no more get out of jail free cards as it is used now.

 

[Bigfella]

And yes atsap allows people to essentially fuck up as much as they want as long as they screw up differently and don't indicate neglect. With a privatized system I believe there will be more accountability, no more get out of jail free cards as it is used now.

When I worked at flight service for Lockheed Martin, the FAA would give them incentive money if those in operations gave 95% complete and satisfactory weather briefings and all this other crap associated with flight service. This led to QA going on a tear and decertifying people who had done the job for 30+ years, going back into training with people with less than 5 years experience. They would decertify them for the most mundane shit and the union was so weak there they couldnt do anything about it but watch. Don't trust these people...

 

[Dontbotherme]

ATSAPs can already be overturned so their completely worthless, in my opinion.

 

[corn4ahead]

No way. I remember the final Academy problems being like 50-60+ operations in 30 minutes.
If you're at a VFR tower, there's no way you're running that amount of air carrier traffic from Dash 8's to B747s.
If you're at a busy up/down with that kind air carrier traffic, your pattern traffic is almost non-existent.

If Academy Tower was going to be ran like a real facility, they'd have two local controllers if that was the normal amount of traffic.



ATSAP is a joke anyway for how most people use it. I had an error, I'm not going to tell anyone about it, but I'll fill out this form and I'll be protected if it's ever looked at?
And technical issues can be fixed sooner with people filling out ATSAPs? Facility management should take the lead on that and when they pass an issue up to the district, it should be looked at.....don't wait for ATSAPs to be filed before issues are investigated.

I completely agree that AAC tower is much more difficult. The volume and traffic mix is much higher than most facilities they send you right from the Academy. At up/down facilities, the TRACON usually carries the traffic count.

Also, with AAC, they limit the tools you are allowed to use to keep track of your pattern traffic. They force you to use their way of strip management/writing down call sign on sheet of paper, etc.

 

[breakaway2000]

What are we really comparing here? Your average traffic count at your VFR tower or an actual busy session? I'd rank a busy session (50+ ops) at a VFR Tower well above what the academy threw at me.

Like UScolt45, every session at the academy is designed to run flawlessly unless you (or your incompetent GC) change it. Every similar type inbound or pattern traffic flies the same consistent speed throughout their flight. Every similar aircraft flies an identical pattern. Two parallels with a crossing runway you can LUAW on and use for departures only? As far as airport designs, it doesn't get much easier then that. Every aircraft checks in and replies with a clear and concise transmission without any excess verbiage. There are no human factors on the pilot side.

In order to certify (at least prior to the NCEPT), you had to prove you could work outlier sessions not consistent with your average workflow. Factor in 50+ sessions running crossway runways, speed variations, pilot error, compression, missed calls, readback errors, a point and ship approach control, and often times dealing with the fact you have more planes then available gaps, for me it's not close. I loved the academy, but it was easy. Although potentially fewer and further between depending on what airport you start at, the variables that real life ATC can throw at you are much greater then anything you see at the academy.

 

[wrigley615]

No way. I remember the final Academy problems being like 50-60+ operations in 30 minutes.
If you're at a VFR tower, there's no way you're running that amount of air carrier traffic from Dash 8's to B747s.
If you're at a busy up/down with that kind air carrier traffic, your pattern traffic is almost non-existent.

If Academy Tower was going to be ran like a real facility, they'd have two local controllers if that was the normal .

The academy will be shut down when we privatize.

 

[Stinger]

The academy will be shut down when we privatize.

I'm not against privatizing....let each facility hire and train the people they want. I think quality would go up.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I'm not against privatizing....let each facility hire and train the people they want. I think quality would go up.

Only based on the quality of the applicant pool

 

[Mike Kilo]

Yah because we all know when management hires whoever they want it's for "quality". Said no one ever.

 

[breakaway2000]

New priority list is out. A80 in the top 6! A80 needing 45 was edged out by level 4 BPT who needs 2 lol @Robertb
Like I mentioned before this priority list is still based on false data for the facilities that lost and received this past NCEPT panel.

 

[corn4ahead]

The list actually kind of makes sense now.

 

[ATOH]

Can somebody try uploading the list again? That link doesn't work on iOS.

 

[Andrew]

Can somebody try uploading the list again? That link doesn't work on iOS.

Worked for me, click too right to open in numbers

 

[Dontbotherme]

Can somebody try uploading the list again? That link doesn't work on iOS.

If you open it in Numbers (iPhone), it works fine.

 

[Dontbotherme]

New priority list is out. A80 in the top 6! A80 needing 45 was edged out by level 4 BPT who needs 2 lol @Robertb
Like I mentioned before this priority list is still based on false data for the facilities that lost and received this past NCEPT panel.

Thanks for posting the list! Hopefully, we can get some qualified people now because that has not been happening with VRAs and NCEPT transfers. I still don't understand the order of the list, but it is better than being in the 20-30 range if people want to come here on ERRs. So now, if you put in your paperwork for A80, you'll be selected.

 

[Super Salt]

Thank god MCO is #60!

 

[Move78]

This priority is better but it is still broken. Worst case scenario is they're dumb enough to think fixing the training data was also a fix to the priority list. It's not that unlikely of a result because fixing the training data legitimately improved the priority list. But once all those fraud core 30 towers come back to earth(if people leave), they will be over represented at the top of the priority again it's only a matter of time. Could be immediately on the Dec NCEPT maybe.