Change in new hire personality type?

[COWTOWN]

I work with GulfBravoPapa, def not DoD…I was a 2014 hire and I bid 3rd from the bottom for the 2023 schedule. We just had a handful that certified below me. So next year I’ll have a choice…Tue/Wed or Wed/Thur 😍

2015 myself, bid last in seniority this year. May be 2 or 3 from the bottom next year.

 

[ATCNOMAD]

Probably because so much word about the agency travels around the military now. Active duty controllers really don’t want to go from working the same shift Monday through Friday with an occasional weekend shift to working rotating shifts and 60 hour weeks. It could also be marginally due to the fact that ever since the Air force gave up the few en-route scopes that it used to have out at Nellis AFB from the Las Vegas Center days, there’s effectively no way for .mil controllers of any branch to get en route experience.


The broad spectrum of “controllers” that roll out of the military is probably due to a difference in operational necessity so we all train differently. Some of us work slower bombers/tankers while some work fast fighters. And especially in the radar, this can drastically change the experience you get with MOAs, Ranges, Restricted Areas etc., not to mention the dozens of waivers involved with military sorties. It’s just a totally different kind of ATC. That said, some ex-.mil controllers have experience that translates to the FAA better than others for working air carrier and GA traffic. Not making excuses for some of the very shitty prior .mil controllers in the agency but that’s what I’ve noticed as prior mil myself.

My military experience was helo traffic, the end lol. So I definitely understand it's a wide bag. The word is out that the FAA has bad hours, but being in the military is still much worse. Much less pay, deployments, changing duty stations and moving every few years. I would think getting out the military and into the FAA would still look very appealing. My life in the FAA feels a thousand times better than my life in the military.

Yeah like in the 80s or 90s when if you were a woman or minority you didn't certify without a ton of extra bs

Talking to women and minorities that worked in the 80s and 90s you had to be a VERY VERY good controller and basically better than most. Because they were definitely trying their best to wash you out. That is one of the good things about the newer FAA and the newer personalities. A lot less of that sexist and racist BS, though it still exists in some places unfortunately.

Liberals and their wokeness. /s

If wokeness and liberals stopped sexist racist behavior we owe them all a cheers 🍻

 

[NightWatch]

My military experience was helo traffic, the end lol. So I definitely understand it's a wide bag. The word is out that the FAA has bad hours, but being in the military is still much worse. Much less pay, deployments, changing duty stations and moving every few years. I would think getting out the military and into the FAA would still look very appealing. My life in the FAA feels a thousand times better than my life in the military.

Oh yeah I’d have to agree with you 100%. The ONLY thing appealing about the .mil side is stateside hours and even then, you still have those lovely exercises. Lol

 

[NervousBusyTrafficTapping]

Newer generation tends to have higher intelligence and thinner skin, from what I can tell. It's as much a tradeoff than anything.

Although some changes seem obvious, it isn't too different from when I was a trainee. It's just packaged differently. We still receive trainees that are incredibly respectful and thankful for their training, putting in an honest effort. We still get trainees that feel entitled to certification and can be professionally combative. I promise you, whether you can remember it or not, that hasn't changed from earlier generations.

But there is something to be said about two generations of controllers being raised in a social media world and a pre-social media world. There's a bit of a divide there that I can't put my finger on. Probably something about growing up in a world where everything you put online is being monitored by everybody, which distills a very specific type of person. But in the context of ATC, it truly doesn't matter. If your new hires don't like drinking, well the best controller I've ever known has been sober for over a decade. If they don't have an edge to them, the second-best controller I've known is a born-again Christian who doesn't even swear. The only question is whether they can perform the job. If the answer is yes, then we're bitching for absolutely no reason. If the answer is no, then that is very bad and the FAA should investigate ways to improve the quality of our hires or their training. Literally everything else, from personality clashes to having it better or not better than older generations, is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Newer generation tends to have higher intelligence and thinner skin, from what I can tell. It's as much a tradeoff than anything.

Although some changes seem obvious, it isn't too different from when I was a trainee. It's just packaged differently. We still receive trainees that are incredibly respectful and thankful for their training, putting in an honest effort. We still get trainees that feel entitled to certification and can be professionally combative. I promise you, whether you can remember it or not, that hasn't changed from earlier generations.

But there is something to be said about two generations of controllers being raised in a social media world and a pre-social media world. There's a bit of a divide there that I can't put my finger on. Probably something about growing up in a world where everything you put online is being monitored by everybody, which distills a very specific type of person. But in the context of ATC, it truly doesn't matter. If your new hires don't like drinking, well the best controller I've ever known has been sober for over a decade. If they don't have an edge to them, the second-best controller I've known is a born-again Christian who doesn't even swear. The only question is whether they can perform the job. If the answer is yes, then we're bitching for absolutely no reason. If the answer is no, then that is very bad and the FAA should investigate ways to improve the quality of our hires or their training. Literally everything else, from personality clashes to having it better or not better than older generations, is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Really long winded way to say if they aren't a good fit personality wise they should be washed out

 

[Raise when?]

2015 myself, bid last in seniority this year. May be 2 or 3 from the bottom next year.

started from the bottom now u here

 

[32andBelow]

I’ve noticed that a lot of newer trainees don’t seem to think they can kill people. Like messing up bad doesn’t seem to phase them much.

 

[CoffeeIV]

It's all you old folks fault that I have to do this dumbass civility elms.

 

[Raise when?]

It's all you old folks fault that I have to do this dumbass civility elms.

and all u zoomers with the runway incursions and near misses that give us 90% of the other briefings

 

[SolicitSVFR]

and all u zoomers with the runway incursions and near misses that give us 90% of the other briefings

I’m offended. My feelings are more important than any runway incursion or safety issue

 

[Raise when?]

I’m offended. My feelings are more important than any runway incursion or safety issue

yes, god forbid you call out bad behavior and try to hold people accountable. we need more respect initiatives!

 

[SolicitSVFR]

yes, god forbid you call out bad behavior and try to hold people accountable. we need more respect initiatives!

These incursions wouldn’t happen if HR actually paid me by my proper pronoun, level 12 CPC, but they keep paying me as a level 7 which I find deeply offensive

 

[CoffeeIV]

and all u zoomers with the runway incursions and near misses that give us 90% of the other briefings

7110.65 was written in blood. It didn't become so thick overnight by the "zoomers." ASDE-X had to be created to do our jobs for us because you geriatrics tried to kill so many people. Now it's actually tracked and logged by computers, who knows how many near misses and incursions happened back in the day because you just swept it under the rug or dropped your pen.

A couple memorable ones:
1991 - Controlller lands a plane on another one.
2006 - Lexington, KY - The controller at the time had been in the agency 17 years. Clears a dude for take off and kills everyone on board due to their failure to look where the plane was. But yeah that was a zoomer.


If any of you are interested in why some of the rules are in place, click this link and you'll see how people died a lot more often in aviation prior to the generation currently controlling. I also suggest you listen to the full 9/11 audio some time for air traffic. It's pretty crazy how no one really did anything until it was too late. Now you get a change of destination for an IFR and you have to notify the DEN asap.

 

[Raise when?]

7110.65 was written in blood. It didn't become so thick overnight by the "zoomers." ASDE-X had to be created to do our jobs for us because you geriatrics tried to kill so many people. Now it's actually tracked and logged by computers, who knows how many near misses and incursions happened back in the day because you just swept it under the rug or dropped your pen.

A couple memorable ones:
1991 - Controlller lands a plane on another one.
2006 - Lexington, KY - The controller at the time had been in the agency 17 years. Clears a dude for take off and kills everyone on board due to their failure to look where the plane was. But yeah that was a zoomer.


If any of you are interested in why some of the rules are in place, click this link and you'll see how people died a lot more often in aviation prior to the generation currently controlling. I also suggest you listen to the full 9/11 audio some time for air traffic. It's pretty crazy how no one really did anything until it was too late. Now you get a change of destination for an IFR and you have to notify the DEN asap.

It’s gonna get thicker from the zoomers, weak NTI, and covid Cpc’s , I guarantee it 😅

 

[32andBelow]

7110.65 was written in blood. It didn't become so thick overnight by the "zoomers." ASDE-X had to be created to do our jobs for us because you geriatrics tried to kill so many people. Now it's actually tracked and logged by computers, who knows how many near misses and incursions happened back in the day because you just swept it under the rug or dropped your pen.

A couple memorable ones:
1991 - Controlller lands a plane on another one.
2006 - Lexington, KY - The controller at the time had been in the agency 17 years. Clears a dude for take off and kills everyone on board due to their failure to look where the plane was. But yeah that was a zoomer.


If any of you are interested in why some of the rules are in place, click this link and you'll see how people died a lot more often in aviation prior to the generation currently controlling. I also suggest you listen to the full 9/11 audio some time for air traffic. It's pretty crazy how no one really did anything until it was too late. Now you get a change of destination for an IFR and you have to notify the DEN asap.

The boomers suck too. It’s only the ‘millennials that are good!!!

 

[Termine]

if HR actually paid me by my proper pronoun, level 12 CPC,

Do you have any idea what a "pronoun" is and what it's used for in a language?

 

[AB19]

Do you have any idea what a "pronoun" is and what it's used for in a language?

No they failed college level English class why do you think they became a controller

 

[CoffeeIV]

It’s gonna get thicker from the zoomers, weak NTI, and covid Cpc’s , I guarantee it 😅

I like how I can post an actual wikipedia page that lists all the crashes that have happened and how there are now less casualties and your retort is simply an assumption. Good one.

 

[Raise when?]

I like how I can post an actual wikipedia page that lists all the crashes that have happened and how there are now less casualties and your retort is simply an assumption. Good one.

 

[SolicitSVFR]

Do you have any idea what a "pronoun" is and what it's used for in a language?

Do you have any idea how your privilege is showing?

No they failed college level English class why do you think they became a controller

Yes I failed English because I didn’t want to learn the language of the oppressor, but please patronize the oppressed