Justin Dailey for NATCA President

[32andBelow]

This just goes back to the same problem. NATCA should have been decertified for extending the slate book.

The last extension really put us in a terrible position. It’s very hard at this point to go oh uhhh well nvm we want to negotiate mid term.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Do pilots get a pension?

yes

Edit: after doing a little bit of reading it seems like pensions have gone away for legacy airlines. They have either defined benefit or defined contribution plans, and legacy airlines will pay out upwards of $43,000 per year to it. So, they no longer have pensions but have much more robust employer contributions. I’d have to do some more digging but I think some box haulers may still have pensions (FedEx and UPS Specifically)

 

[acutetriangles]

Plus the DEI hires get all their training back paid for.

That’s a pretty sweet deal. Where’s a link so I can sign up for that?

 

[Motodog]

yes

Edit: after doing a little bit of reading it seems like pensions have gone away for legacy airlines. They have either defined benefit or defined contribution plans, and legacy airlines will pay out upwards of $43,000 per year to it. So, they no longer have pensions but have much more robust employer contributions. I’d have to do some more digging but I think some box haulers may still have pensions (FedEx and UPS Specifically)

Legacy airlines/majors have gone primarily from defined benefit plans (traditional pensions) to defined contribution plans. And as you said, the employer kicks in some substantial $ in additional to the emplyee funding it

 

[TimShady]

Happen to have a link to the town hall?

How does extending the contract with the option to negotiate in 2026 benefit us? Anything negotiated wouldn’t take effect until 2030 or why extend it now if it’ll potentially change prior to 2029?

I wasn’t on the town hall but to me it sounds like they’re scared to death of another Trump admin (maybe they should be). Signing an extension through 2029 would ensure we at least keep what we have now and weather those 4 years without losing anything. The option to open negotiations in 2026 if it’s Biden would allow us to theoretically get us a better contract sooner without that risk.

Something to remember is Trump’s executive orders aimed at weakening public unions. I remember specifically they took away official time and also space in federal buildings, so NATCA would have to pay the FAA rent to use an office, for instance, and all union business would have to be done on breaks or days off. IIRC they also made it where unions couldn’t collect dues through payroll deduction, making it a lot less likely members would go out of their way to pay. I know NATCA thought it would essentially be the end of them if they took effect, but the CBA protected us from them. If it expired in the middle of his next term that wouldn’t be the case.

In any case, this all just confirms that willingly extending under Biden, while knowing the apparent stakes of negotiating with Trump or another Republican admin, was the single biggest blunder in NATCA’s history and will end up costing members untold amounts in pay and benefits over our careers. I don’t think this can be overstated.

 

[Mike Kilo]

In any case, this all just confirms that willingly extending under Biden, while knowing the apparent stakes of negotiating with Trump or another Republican admin, was the single biggest blunder in NATCA’s history and will end up costing members untold amounts in pay and benefits over our careers. I don’t think this can be overstated.

This exactly. As others have said this will make the slate book have a chance of being the majority of people’s careers. Very underwhelming compared to other work forces right now.

 

[showtime]

If they extend to 2029, I’m leaving NATCA. Worthless “union”

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

I wasn’t on the town hall but to me it sounds like they’re scared to death of another Trump admin (maybe they should be). Signing an extension through 2029 would ensure we at least keep what we have now and weather those 4 years without losing anything. The option to open negotiations in 2026 if it’s Biden would allow us to theoretically get us a better contract sooner without that risk.

Something to remember is Trump’s executive orders aimed at weakening public unions. I remember specifically they took away official time and also space in federal buildings, so NATCA would have to pay the FAA rent to use an office, for instance, and all union business would have to be done on breaks or days off. IIRC they also made it where unions couldn’t collect dues through payroll deduction, making it a lot less likely members would go out of their way to pay. I know NATCA thought it would essentially be the end of them if they took effect, but the CBA protected us from them. If it expired in the middle of his next term that wouldn’t be the case.

In any case, this all just confirms that willingly extending under Biden, while knowing the apparent stakes of negotiating with Trump or another Republican admin, was the single biggest blunder in NATCA’s history and will end up costing members untold amounts in pay and benefits over our careers. I don’t think this can be overstated.

I hope Trump gets in office. The union didn’t do anything under the “most union friendly president” or whatever Biden claimed so maybe NATCA should do something to prove why members should go out of their way to pay them outside of payroll deductions. Prove to me why I should and I’ll do it. Until then I’ll be stopping my payroll deductions next chance I get.

 

[KP-ATC]

I hope Trump gets in office. The union didn’t do anything under the “most union friendly president” or whatever Biden claimed so maybe NATCA should do something to prove why members should go out of their way to pay them outside of payroll deductions. Prove to me why I should and I’ll do it. Until then I’ll be stopping my payroll deductions next chance I get.

You can get out in January. Or, if JD wins, maybe stick around.

 

[theflyingpig]

this union needs some balls. stop being scared. sure we lack the option to strike but there are LOTS of things we can do to make flying painful. just follow every rule to the t.sure there are risks of not extending (again) but as they say "no risk it, no bizkit".

 

[inthrewtheoutdor]

PATCOs operation air safety was effective

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

You can get out in January. Or, if JD wins, maybe stick around.

Yeah, JD has my vote. Out with all of the NEB. NATCA has a lot to prove to everyone, even with a new NEB.

 

[32andBelow]

I wasn’t on the town hall but to me it sounds like they’re scared to death of another Trump admin (maybe they should be). Signing an extension through 2029 would ensure we at least keep what we have now and weather those 4 years without losing anything. The option to open negotiations in 2026 if it’s Biden would allow us to theoretically get us a better contract sooner without that risk.

Something to remember is Trump’s executive orders aimed at weakening public unions. I remember specifically they took away official time and also space in federal buildings, so NATCA would have to pay the FAA rent to use an office, for instance, and all union business would have to be done on breaks or days off. IIRC they also made it where unions couldn’t collect dues through payroll deduction, making it a lot less likely members would go out of their way to pay. I know NATCA thought it would essentially be the end of them if they took effect, but the CBA protected us from them. If it expired in the middle of his next term that wouldn’t be the case.

In any case, this all just confirms that willingly extending under Biden, while knowing the apparent stakes of negotiating with Trump or another Republican admin, was the single biggest blunder in NATCA’s history and will end up costing members untold amounts in pay and benefits over our careers. I don’t think this can be overstated.

If project 2025 happens then I don’t think any agreement we have or don’t have it doing to mean anything

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

this union needs some balls. stop being scared. sure we lack the option to strike but there are LOTS of things we can do to make flying painful. just follow every rule to the t.sure there are risks of not extending (again) but as they say "no risk it, no bizkit".

A lot of people forget or don't realize that you don't have to strike or have a full-scale labor action to apply bargaining leverage.

Never underestimate the power of malicious compliance.

PATCOs operation air safety was effective

Operation Air Safety was VERY effective. PATCO won a lot in its first several years with that strategy: raised salaries, reopened the academy, increased hiring, etc.

I still wonder why they abandoned that strategy in 1981. A national strike gave Reagan/the FAA the opportunity to do triage with replacement controllers and prioritizing flights; essentially amounting to a few shitty weeks for air travel.

If something like Operation Air Safety was intelligently implemented now, I wouldn't doubt for a moment that NATCA could get almost everything they wanted at the bargaining table.

 

[LennyA21]

Nick saw that Rich and JD were getting more support than him in every possible medium. So narcissist Nick did was narcissists do and made a motion to extend the contract and used his NEB minions to move it forward. He saw he was losing so he decided to fuck us all over.

Biden is polling higher than Trump, we don’t know what the hell we’re getting in 2029. He saw the reaction the membership had to extended the last time instead of negotiating and said he did not care he’s doing it again.

 

[GulfCharlie]

A lot of people forget or don't realize that you don't have to strike or have a full-scale labor action to apply bargaining leverage.

Never underestimate the power of malicious compliance.


Operation Air Safety was VERY effective. PATCO won a lot in its first several years with that strategy: raised salaries, reopened the academy, increased hiring, etc.

I still wonder why they abandoned that strategy in 1981. A national strike gave Reagan/the FAA the opportunity to do triage with replacement controllers and prioritizing flights; essentially amounting to a few shitty weeks for air travel.

If something like Operation Air Safety was intelligently implemented now, I wouldn't doubt for a moment that NATCA could get almost everything they wanted at the bargaining table.

I feel PATCO wanted to prove a point that they were indispensable, which we know we are not, but we also know that you cannot just call in the military to work like they did back in the day.

 

[32andBelow]

My understanding is Patco got a very good offer and kept pushing and pushing.

 

[LennyA21]

My understanding is Patco got a very good offer and kept pushing and pushing.

Nick got us the same offer from a decade ago. What a great ideas guy!

 

[boots]

There's going to be so many sad people in this thread if you think its not getting extended to 2029

 

[Nothanks]

Nick saw that Rich and JD were getting more support than him in every possible medium. So narcissist Nick did was narcissists do and made a motion to extend the contract and used his NEB minions to move it forward. He saw he was losing so he decided to fuck us all over.

Biden is polling higher than Trump, we don’t know what the hell we’re getting in 2029. He saw the reaction the membership had to extended the last time instead of negotiating and said he did not care he’s doing it again.

All the bookmakers have trump winning at way better odds. Follow the money, not news polls.