NCEPT debate thread

I just think there's 0 shot they scrap this. They literally rolled it out knowing it was going to have to be amended a million times. There are obvious changes that we all know need to happen and its unacceptable that they haven't happened yet.
 
Maybe it continues to climb because few can leave.
It climbs because they're pumping a surplus in by adding more inbounds into training then are being removed (retirements). Which has only a little to do with ERRs and more to do with original onboarding. But their goal is to staff the system nationally and the forecasts are climbing so it's a tough sell to get everyone to agree it needs to be blown up. We have to look at this from all the angles.
This is in no way an endorsement of NCEPT from me btw.
 
It climbs because they're pumping a surplus in by adding more inbounds into training then are being removed (retirements). Which has only a little to do with ERRs and more to do with original onboarding. But their goal is to staff the system nationally and the forecasts are climbing so it's a tough sell to get everyone to agree it needs to be blown up. We have to look at this from all the angles.
This is in no way an endorsement of NCEPT from me btw.

But the question is, who do we go to about getting our voices heard (and listened to)? What is the appropriate avenue to take with our union?
 
The whole ncept process is a crap shoot. If you don't want to be stuck where you are forever you have to bid high level, undesirable places just so you can get out.
 
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It's working so well they have to keep coming up with special rules to keep it from working too well.

I mean, if it starts working it would mean your entire platform of "NCEPT IS SO BAD U GUYZ!!" would be denigrated. And that the NATCA people who said hold on, it's going to the time to work out the kinks and everyone needs to be patient (Paul, Trish) maybe know what they're doing after all.

OMG they didn't nail it right off the bat. And it's still far from perfect. And also now starting to work for a larger percentage of Controllers.
 
I mean, if it starts working it would mean your entire platform of "NCEPT IS SO BAD U GUYZ!!" would be denigrated. And that the NATCA people who said hold on, it's going to the time to work out the kinks and everyone needs to be patient (Paul, Trish) maybe know what they're doing after all.

OMG they didn't nail it right off the bat. And it's still far from perfect. And also now starting to work for a larger percentage of Controllers.
Any process where the criteria is completely arbitrary and has no merit basis is not working. Any process that has to be changed every three months to allow it to "work" is not working. It is fundamentally wrong from the start.

This has always been the argument against it.
 
I mean, if it starts working it would mean your entire platform of "NCEPT IS SO BAD U GUYZ!!" would be denigrated. And that the NATCA people who said hold on, it's going to the time to work out the kinks and everyone needs to be patient (Paul, Trish) maybe know what they're doing after all.

OMG they didn't nail it right off the bat. And it's still far from perfect. And also now starting to work for a larger percentage of Controllers.
We all have opinions based on our own personal experience with it. Maybe if you weren't being a dick about it your opinion might be more well received or at least considered
 
Any process where the criteria is completely arbitrary and has no merit basis is not working. Any process that has to be changed every three months to allow it to "work" is not working. It is fundamentally wrong from the start.

This has always been the argument against it.

Why do you assume it's not merit based? In our facility, the people that do the best job, have got to move on. The people who do not do a good job, are staying, even though they had more seniority/higher level facilities. Do you think lazy people who show up late for work, refuse to train, and have a bad attitude should be promoted?
 
Why do you assume it's not merit based? In our facility, the people that do the best job, have got to move on. The people who do not do a good job, are staying, even though they had more seniority/higher level facilities. Do you think lazy people who show up late for work, refuse to train, and have a bad attitude should be promoted?

The criteria for getting an ERR approved aren't merit-based by definition in the MOU dude...

It's great that the people who deserve to move on have gotten to do so at your facility but just make sure you understand that any of your controllers who are lazy, don't show up to work, and refuse to train WILL get out before the good ones as long as they pick a higher prioritized facility.
 
The criteria for getting an ERR approved aren't merit-based by definition in the MOU dude...

It's great that the people who deserve to move on have gotten to do so at your facility but just make sure you understand that any of your controllers who are lazy, don't show up to work, and refuse to train WILL get out before the good ones as long as they pick a higher prioritized facility.
@Dolan is right that's it's not merit based by definition. But "WILL" is no longer correct as the process improves and levels off all the numbers. Once everything starts to even out which should start happening now or after the next panel it'll be harder for slugs to cut in line unless they pick high priority facilities that nobody wants to go to. Once facilities get to a point where none are allotted massive amounts of selections then it'll become competitive again. N90 C90 A80 ZNY and some others will be exceptions
 
The criteria for getting an ERR approved aren't merit-based by definition in the MOU dude...

It's great that the people who deserve to move on have gotten to do so at your facility but just make sure you understand that any of your controllers who are lazy, don't show up to work, and refuse to train WILL get out before the good ones as long as they pick a higher prioritized facility.

Then why not put in for the same high priority facility? If you do a better job, you will get selected over the other people at your facility.
 
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Then why not put in for the same high priority facility? If you do a better job, you will get selected over the other people at your facility.
Because I shouldn't have to give up hopes of getting to a facility I've been trying to get to for 10 years just to jump ahead of someone who's been CPC for a week that I trained to go to a facility I don't want to be at? Or I guess he just deserves being able to move before me? NATCA must absolutely love you. I wonder what it would take for you to admit that you're getting fucked by your union
 
Then why not put in for the same high priority facility? If you do a better job, you will get selected over the other people at your facility.
That's assuming you want to go there and assuming you know where they have ERR's in to. I've said it numerous times, if you tell people where you have ERR's into, you're only giving them the knowledge to jump in front of you.
 
Because I shouldn't have to give up hopes of getting to a facility I've been trying to get to for 10 years just to jump ahead of someone who's been CPC for a week that I trained to go to a facility I don't want to be at? Or I guess he just deserves being able to move before me? NATCA must absolutely love you. I wonder what it would take for you to admit that you're getting fucked by your union

No you are right. You are more important then someone who needed to accept a facility 1500 miles from their family just to get into the FAA.
 
Then why not put in for the same high priority facility? If you do a better job, you will get selected over the other people at your facility.
This is false. Facilities get to rank the people they want. And as we can see with past selections they don't always hire based on experience (merit) etc. It's still the who do you know ass kissing game.
 
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