Newark Disaster

[DankVectorz]

So do they just get re-assigned to another area? What happens in the off chance that they wash in their new area?

They go to another area. It’s spelled out in the mou, if they wash in the new area they go to another n90 area, and if they wash from that one they either go to PHL OR can be considered as 2 training failures in a row. No one from EWR area is going to wash from another area in N90 unless it’s on purpose though.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

In 5-7 years we’ll be fully staffed, don’t worry!

Haven’t they been saying that for the last 15 years? 😂

 

[Termine]

If you have a EWR departure on the west side of the line on a 025 and a LGA in the downwind on the line on a 220 heading that's not divergence but it's diverging from the line so you're allowed to climb even if they're converging .5 miles apart.

That's some of the most cowboy-ass shit I've ever heard. Remind me never to fly out of EWR or into LGA.

 

[Wizard]

That's some of the most cowboy-ass shit I've ever heard. Remind me never to fly out of EWR or into LGA.

Need to let United know not only is the FAA not capable of staffing the facilities but separation also goes out the window in that air space.

 

[DankVectorz]

That's some of the most cowboy-ass shit I've ever heard. Remind me never to fly out of EWR or into LGA.

It sounds worse than it is in reality. Unless departures switch over late 98% are turning westbound climbing out of 2,000. And it’s been working fine for something like 40+ years now.

 

[KP-ATC]

That's some of the most cowboy-ass shit I've ever heard. Remind me never to fly out of EWR or into LGA.

If this bothers you, wait until you learn about PACP - that'll really hurt your brain.

 

[Termine]

Unless departures switch over late 98% are turning westbound climbing out of 2,000.

Oh, so you're only having twenty deals a day. Perfectly acceptable then.

wait until you learn about PACP

Yeah I know PACP is a thing, that's what I was referencing earlier about STARS quicklook regions. All the PACP I've seen is "automatic pointouts," not "you're allowed to run 0.5 miles lateral and co-altitude." You still need to maintain separation...

 

[DankVectorz]

Oh, so you're only having twenty deals a day. Perfectly acceptable then.

It’s not a deal

 

[Termine]

Do you have a waiver from higher up specifically referencing 5-5-4b and/or 5-5-7a, and relieving you from complying with those paragraphs provided you use the SUL as described? If so then I'll accept that it isn't a deal. If you don't have a waiver then it's a loss of separation no matter what your SOP says.

 

[DankVectorz]

Do you have a waiver from higher up specifically referencing 5-5-4b and/or 5-5-7a, and relieving you from complying with those paragraphs provided you use the SUL as described? If so then I'll accept that it isn't a deal. If you don't have a waiver then it's a loss of separation no matter what your SOP says.

Idk probably? It’s been SOP long before I got here 10 years ago, I’m assuming someone higher up is aware by now. And it’s only a “deal” if we actually climb them with the LGA right there which most people don’t do. But the real many deals happen right off departure end with a strong east wind and TEB arrivals on the ILS 6. That’s pretty much an insta-deal. SID used to be a right turn to 060 but now it’s 055, with a good east wind they’ll track 045 sometimes. If you want to keep up your fishing expedition that’s what you want to focus on.

 

[Phanatical]

Idk probably? It’s been SOP long before I got here 10 years ago, I’m assuming someone higher up is aware by now. And it’s only a “deal” if we actually climb them with the LGA right there which most people don’t do. But the real many deals happen right off departure end with a strong east wind and TEB arrivals on the ILS 6. That’s pretty much an insta-deal. SID used to be a left turn to 060 but now it’s 055, with a good east wind they’ll track 045 sometimes. If you want to keep up your fishing expedition that’s what you want to focus on.

Or TEB departures that can’t read an altitude restriction on a SID

 

[DankVectorz]

Or TEB departures that can’t read an altitude restriction on a SID

Yeah but that’s a pilot deviation so that’s different

 

[Acquired Taste]

Idk probably? It’s been SOP long before I got here 10 years ago, I’m assuming someone higher up is aware by now. And it’s only a “deal” if we actually climb them with the LGA right there which most people don’t do. But the real many deals happen right off departure end with a strong east wind and TEB arrivals on the ILS 6. That’s pretty much an insta-deal. SID used to be a left turn to 060 but now it’s 055, with a good east wind they’ll track 045 sometimes. If you want to keep up your fishing expedition that’s what you want to focus on.

RNAV sids fix this. Why don't you guys have them?

 

[DankVectorz]

RNAV sids fix this. Why don't you guys have them?

Ask TERPS?

 

[MJ]

Ask TERPS?

 

[SquawkHijack]

Ask TERPS?

I’m no terpster myself, but if they’re having you guys use vectors in very congested airspace like that and all it takes is a wind push for someone to come very close to having a deal, even with a waiver allowing certain reduced proximity to begin with, y’all should be filing ATSAPs to get an RNAV SID published. If anything that would strengthen whatever managers ego who thought that particular procedure was a good and safe idea.

 

[inthrewtheoutdor]

There are RNAV Sids that the planes routinely bust.

 

[Gauff]

There are RNAV Sids that the planes routinely bust.

Curious how they bust them. Are they climb via rnav SIDs? Cause I would think the pilot should have that pre programed before takeoff. I don't work with any type of rnav sid so I'm just curious

 

[DankVectorz]

Curious how they bust them. Are they climb via rnav SIDs? Cause I would think the pilot should have that pre programed before takeoff. I don't work with any type of rnav sid so I'm just curious

They do bust the WENTZ off of TEB fairly often. Supposed to level at 1500, but climb to 2000+ with the EWR final above them at 2500.

 

[eltors0]

Curious how they bust them. Are they climb via rnav SIDs? Cause I would think the pilot should have that pre programed before takeoff. I don't work with any type of rnav sid so I'm just curious

because crews some how can’t figure out how to differentiate between “climb via xxx”, “climb via xxx except at blah blah blah this this this” and “climb and maintain”. Some insist on hearing you say unrestricted but that is just dumb, but honestly climb via is just stupid overall.