Shoot The Breeze

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Nhstadt said:
I mean that's the law enforcement side of the story, eyewitness accounts differ is my understanding as far as who announced themselves and who shot first.

And you should crack a history book, and search the origins of antifa, along with who actually won ww2. If you are buying the American exceptionalism version of how the war was won, you are missing out on the realities of the situation.

Long story short, the war was over before any Americans hit the beaches at Normandy.
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You are just trolling right. You really don’t believe that the war was over by Normandy. Cmon now. Did you go to school in Cuba or something? Did Russia do the heavy lifting on the eastern front, absolutely no doubt. How much did they do in North Africa? Oh that was the Brits, Canucks and us. How much did they do in Italy? Oh that was the same. How much did they do in the Pacific? No that was us. What kind of whacko textbook downplays American exceptionalism in WW2? Please enlighten us as to who “actually won ww2”? Wow
 
Dialoutmfer said:
You are just trolling right. You really don’t believe that the war was over by Normandy. Cmon now. Did you go to school in Cuba or something? Did Russia do the heavy lifting on the eastern front, absolutely no doubt. How much did they do in North Africa? Oh that was the Brits, Canucks and us. How much did they do in Italy? Oh that was the same. How much did they do in the Pacific? No that was us. What kind of whacko textbook downplays American exceptionalism in WW2? Please enlighten us as to who “actually won ww2”? Wow
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No one can take credit for beating the Italians because they lost to Ethiopia
 
Dialoutmfer said:
You are just trolling right. You really don’t believe that the war was over by Normandy. Cmon now. Did you go to school in Cuba or something? Did Russia do the heavy lifting on the eastern front, absolutely no doubt. How much did they do in North Africa? Oh that was the Brits, Canucks and us. How much did they do in Italy? Oh that was the same. How much did they do in the Pacific? No that was us. What kind of whacko textbook downplays American exceptionalism in WW2? Please enlighten us as to who “actually won ww2”? Wow
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Not discounting any of that, or saying that it didn't have a huge impact on the world as we know it (certainly put a handle on soviet expansionism in Europe post war, which is obviously a good thing, and a big reason why it was so important, no guarantees Stalin would have stopped in Berlin), but fact of the matter is by the time the US got a single soldier on the ground in italy, much less France, the soviets had surrounded and killed or captured a giant chunk of nazi germany's army in the aftermath of stalingrad, which was the bulk of their army, both by the numbers and in combat experience, and had had the Germans on thier heels retreating back to Germany for months by the time we landed in France.

That the Germans were beat was a foregone conclusion, and that was prior to landing in Normandy. At best, we sped it up a bit. By the numbers, in casualties taken and given, materiel destroyed, and ground retaken from Hitler, the bulk of the war happened in the east when it comes to Europe.

I'm also saying its that's counter to what's typically taught in school, on the American exceptionalism point, outside of big time history courses. At least as far as I remember, as well as what US pop culture likes to depict, which is the allies getting shitwhipped until the USA came to save the day, which is about half true, at least for the brits and French, though not necessarily the reality in the east. That said, we probably did more good with lend lease and strategic bombing, and yes the war in the pacific, which we did the bulk of, than our ground fighting in Europe, which had little effect in the overall outcome of the war in europe, that being the defeat of Germany.

Dousand24 said:
View attachment 5398
This is my favorite one ???
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Man that is a throwback reference for the ages hahaha. Took me a minute to dig this one out of the memory vault.
 
Nhstadt said:
Not discounting any of that, or saying that it didn't have a huge impact on the world as we know it (certainly put a handle on soviet expansionism in Europe post war, which is obviously a good thing, and a big reason why it was so important, no guarantees Stalin would have stopped in Berlin), but fact of the matter is by the time the US got a single soldier on the ground in italy, much less France, the soviets had surrounded and killed or captured a giant chunk of nazi germany's army in the aftermath of stalingrad, which was the bulk of their army, both by the numbers and in combat experience, and had had the Germans on thier heels retreating back to Germany for months by the time we landed in France.

That the Germans were beat was a foregone conclusion, and that was prior to landing in Normandy. At best, we sped it up a bit. By the numbers, in casualties taken and given, materiel destroyed, and ground retaken from Hitler, the bulk of the war happened in the east when it comes to Europe.

I'm also saying its that's counter to what's typically taught in school, on the American exceptionalism point, outside of big time history courses. At least as far as I remember, as well as what US pop culture likes to depict, which is the allies getting shitwhipped until the USA came to save the day, which is about half true, at least for the brits and French, though not necessarily the reality in the east. That said, we probably did more good with lend lease and strategic bombing, and yes the war in the pacific, which we did the bulk of, than our ground fighting in Europe, which had little effect in the overall outcome of the war in europe, that being the defeat of k
Click to expand...
Nhstadt said:
Not discounting any of that, or saying that it didn't have a huge impact on the world as we know it (certainly put a handle on soviet expansionism in Europe post war, which is obviously a good thing, and a big reason why it was so important, no guarantees Stalin would have stopped in Berlin), but fact of the matter is by the time the US got a single soldier on the ground in italy, much less France, the soviets had surrounded and killed or captured a giant chunk of nazi germany's army in the aftermath of stalingrad, which was the bulk of their army, both by the numbers and in combat experience, and had had the Germans on thier heels retreating back to Germany for months by the time we landed in France.

That the Germans were beat was a foregone conclusion, and that was prior to landing in Normandy. At best, we sped it up a bit. By the numbers, in casualties taken and given, materiel destroyed, and ground retaken from Hitler, the bulk of the war happened in the east when it comes to Europe.

I'm also saying its that's counter to what's typically taught in school, on the American exceptionalism point, outside of big time history courses. At least as far as I remember, as well as what US pop culture likes to depict, which is the allies getting shitwhipped until the USA came to save the day, which is about half true, at least for the brits and French, though not necessarily the reality in the east. That said, we probably did more good with lend lease and strategic bombing, and yes the war in the pacific, which we did the bulk of, than our ground fighting in Europe, which had little effect in the overall outcome of the war in europe, that being the defeat of Germany.
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No argument there, I went to high school in a conservative southern state years ago and to the best of my recollection that is what we were taught about Hitler’s blunder. I don’t recall them downplaying the absolute crucial nature of the war in Eastern Europe. Plus anyone who watched Hogan’s Heroes knows how much the Germans feared the eastern front, though I’m probably showing my age there.
 
Nhstadt said:
Not discounting any of that, or saying that it didn't have a huge impact on the world as we know it (certainly put a handle on soviet expansionism in Europe post war, which is obviously a good thing, and a big reason why it was so important, no guarantees Stalin would have stopped in Berlin), but fact of the matter is by the time the US got a single soldier on the ground in italy, much less France, the soviets had surrounded and killed or captured a giant chunk of nazi germany's army in the aftermath of stalingrad, which was the bulk of their army, both by the numbers and in combat experience, and had had the Germans on thier heels retreating back to Germany for months by the time we landed in France.

That the Germans were beat was a foregone conclusion, and that was prior to landing in Normandy. At best, we sped it up a bit. By the numbers, in casualties taken and given, materiel destroyed, and ground retaken from Hitler, the bulk of the war happened in the east when it comes to Europe.

I'm also saying its that's counter to what's typically taught in school, on the American exceptionalism point, outside of big time history courses. At least as far as I remember, as well as what US pop culture likes to depict, which is the allies getting shitwhipped until the USA came to save the day, which is about half true, at least for the brits and French, though not necessarily the reality in the east. That said, we probably did more good with lend lease and strategic bombing, and yes the war in the pacific, which we did the bulk of, than our ground fighting in Europe, which had little effect in the overall outcome of the war in europe, that being the defeat of Germany.
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To add a perspective just for shits and giggles though, the USSR definitely could have taken the Axis by themselves, it would have taken longer and a post-Bloc western Europe would have been gross. Millions of Soviet lives were spared, even without them acknowledging it, by the U.S. involvement at the time. The brutal meat grinder of the Soviet army could have only lasted for so much longer but they had enough bodies to outdo the Germans at the very least. Japan would have swept them from the east after wiping up India at the time.

And that's all assuming that the expeditious end of the war helped by the U.S. if it hadn't intervened wouldn't have landed the A-Bomb in Hitler's lap.
 
Dialoutmfer said:
No argument there, I went to high school in a conservative southern state years ago and to the best of my recollection that is what we were taught about Hitler’s blunder. I don’t recall them downplaying the absolute crucial nature of the war in Eastern Europe. Plus anyone who watched Hogan’s Heroes knows how much the Germans feared the eastern front, though I’m probably showing my age there.
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Hogan's heroes predates me by a bit lol. I have a vague recollection of high school history courses, and what I remember was basically "also, the Russians were fighting in the east and turned the war around in stalingrad, now back to France and the battle of the bulge, okay let's watch an episode of band of Brothers while I draw up some football plays for this Friday" more or less.

I didn't really take the time to learn the other half of the story till I met (eventually married) a girl from that neck of the woods and accidentally pissed her off by making the typical American "you'd be speaking German" joke. I took some time to study and understand that perspective after that and it was a real eye opener. Hell they still celebrate it like we do independence day here, and in a much more reverent manner. I've always considered myself a history guy, but I guess I just focused too much on the US aspect until about 5 years ago, and it's been a real eye opener looking at things from a different point of view at times, this being one of them.
Shikaka said:
To add a perspective just for shits and giggles though, the USSR definitely could have taken the Axis by themselves, it would have taken longer and a post-Bloc western Europe would have been gross. Millions of Soviet lives were spared, even without them acknowledging it, by the U.S. involvement at the time. The brutal meat grinder of the Soviet army could have only lasted for so much longer but they had enough bodies to outdo the Germans at the very least. Japan would have swept them from the east after wiping up India at the time.

And that's all assuming that the expeditious end of the war helped by the U.S. if it hadn't intervened wouldn't have landed the A-Bomb in Hitler's lap.
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Ya thats basically what I'm getting at. No doubt we played a big role, but it wasn't the war winner its sometimes (mainly here, I'd argue) made out to be.
 
Alex Trebek Thank You GIF by Jeopardy!


Only saw one post today on this thread. Take a damn knee and show some respect. The world lost a hero.
 
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