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PushingTin
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lol. l imagine any of the 320ish facilities would feel incentivized if given incentives.
lol. l imagine any of the 320ish facilities would feel incentivized if given incentives.
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- DCA Washington National Tower
That could be it. I imagine it has to do with how motivated mgmt is?
GulfBravoPapa
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In the NW Mountain Region my supervisor told us in team briefing that TOA submissions are only open for one week out of the entire year.
FightingIrish2012
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Must be N90.
Stinger
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My guess is the ATM at your facility told your supervisors to do some one week. But it's a Fiscal Year budget item and it's available until the amount is used up.
Nah, a lower level.
GMX
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Pure rumor but I heard of an ATM taking an alotted amount of TOA and just giving it to another facility instead of giving it to their own controllers. I also think there's something that gives them bonuses if they use no OT and have more TOP. Remember when you were a kid and if you read 10 books you got a free personal pan pizza at Pizza Hut? Same deal.
That said I've gotten both in recent times. They have been a lot less than I've seen in the past though.
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- N90 New York Tracon
Nope. We’ve even had sups put people in for TOA’s but it always get denied
If you're talking about LAN a few years ago, it was not a rumor. TOAs at my last facility were controlled by the district mostly. We were given 30 some hours for the whole year last year and after management split up those hours among everyone the district took almost all of them back to give to the facilities effected by the hurricanes. Not that I didn't think those facilities deserved more (the agency thought so as well), but I didn't understand why we had to give up what little we had when the agency could of just gave them more.
With that said, there are some good people out there. This past year my ATM put in for some TOAs for a situation our controllers worked through for several months. The district initially denied the request but someone within the district with some control heard about the situation, call our ATM up, and got us hours because he though the situation was deserving.
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PushingTin
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CaptainObvious
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Why are TOAs such a tightly controlled deal? Seems like it would help morale greatly
Phillyman2633
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Exactly...what's the incentive for me to push departures on the heavy arrival hour? Why am I going to lock and load on the runway with one over the threshold and the next one 4.5 out? Will I get a pat on the back for getting out 50 departures and saving us a call from the command center asking why we're in delays? Hell to the fuck no. But if I have a sep loss trying to be superman you can bet your chode I'll be in the office answering questions. Not that I'd compromise safety for a 2 hour TOA but you get the picture.
Theres a guy here who had a save a few years ago, talked a helicopter with total engine failure in and moved everyone else out of his way. Got called into the office on his next shift, thought he was getting put in for a save but told me he got proc'd on his "non-standard phraseology" during said incident. And that's the day I lost all faith in my fac management.
I got 2 TOAs and 2 Cash Awards in my 2 years at SJU. Not shit in my 3+ years current facility. And before DankVectorz rolls in and calls me a shitty controller (not unreasonable), nobody at the facility can remember anyone getting a TOA in the last 10 years.
Sorry I started a TOA fight at your CIP party.
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- Command Center
ATCcassie or whatever will probably get a TOA just before she goes MGMT to then stamp denied on every one that comes across her desk.
But it does seem like it's based on facility/mgmt team. Last place I was at I don't recall shit being handed out, before that all the time. Hell the ac would break and we'd all get paid.
Current facility I'm at just paid out some awards... I tipped mgmt off to a save this guy made, stopped a GA ac that made a wrong turn from going on a rwy as a swa was stupid short final. He got a positive proc followed by a neg proc for something else.
But it does seem like it's based on facility/mgmt team. Last place I was at I don't recall shit being handed out, before that all the time. Hell the ac would break and we'd all get paid.
Current facility I'm at just paid out some awards... I tipped mgmt off to a save this guy made, stopped a GA ac that made a wrong turn from going on a rwy as a swa was stupid short final. He got a positive proc followed by a neg proc for something else.
pedaNTIc
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Then go to one. The list isn't a secret.
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PushingTin
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steakvendor
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Don’t know where you work, but would anyone who wants to work or is working in California seriously decide not to go there if there wasn’t CIP?
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PushingTin
Guest
i assumed he was being sarcastic and articulating a subtle variation of the ol "shhhhh, don't question anything CIP related", but if taken literal lol.
Regarding whether someone would actually choose or not based on CIP, IMO the fact of the matter is most controllers have no idea about CIP even existing, because they don't get it and have no reasonable expectation of their facility ever getting it. Nor is there any actual known criteria for expanding or contracting the list, or increasing or decreasing the %. They just assume its fair and just and "they're" doing it properly. Lol. Like that take... If u want it, come to where it is bro!
Trust the process!
Dontbotherme
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There are bonuses based on facility money not spent for ATMs...
PushingTin Atlanta TRACON used to get CIP, according to the old timers here, but when the facility moved 25 minute drive south, the CIP disappeared for the TRACON and magically even for the tower. As far as I know, the tower is still located on the airport property...
Dontbotherme
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Our local literally begged management to give TOAs for the Super Bowl, at the end of the government shutdown. Management gave the SMEs TOA and $500 each. Management’s current solution for controllers: 2 hours of TOA for each shift worked between Thursday and Monday (max of 8 hours even though some like myself worked 5 shifts) and no credit for anyone working a mid shift(s). If you took ANY leave during a shift, you don’t get ANY TOA for that entire day. So now we wait and see how this plays out...
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PushingTin
Guest
Thats another interesting anecdote, if true. and another story of a different (arbitrary?) standard being used when it comes to doling out the top secret (dont-ask-dont-tell) 30 million. An exact counter to that would be when the BOS Tracon guys moved up to A90 consolidated Tracon and were grandfathered in and kept their Boston, MA area CIP since it was a forced move "it wasnt fair to take a pay cut". Not all regions are created equal? I'm assuming the same thing happened w the K90 consolidation? what happened to the Cape 7.3%, or maybe they were just happy to get leveled up?! Will it get diverted to the AZO super Great Lakes TRACON? If K90's went away, who will fill that void, will someone else unwrap the right Wonka Bar and get a golden ticket into that member$ only club!? #CIPMysteryContinues
A80 controller reminiscing on the glory days of CIP...
This sounds nice and fair and in good faith. Makes total sense. There was actually an executive order on it.
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Maintainvfr
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I was actually thinking to myself during the first paragraph of that post that it was reading like a Trump tweet, then you posted him at the end
