The great "CIP" mystery

FightingIrish2012

Trusted Contributor
Messages
273
Another factor I didnt see anyone here mention is if an airport is in a dangerous/bad part of town. Dude I work with thought that's why ADS gets it. Don't know anything about ROC but maybe that explains why they get it and not the others in nearby cities?
ROC is located in a suburb, it’s a prime location no crime and less traffic.
 

PushingTin

Forum Sage
Messages
367
UPDATE: I have solved the Great CIP Mystery. Turns out it was never truly a mystery to begin with, rather a scam of epic proportions. The truth is Controller incentive Pay is an FAA sanctified scam, that enables money to be funneled to the politically connected. Yes like ROC. A hellhole floating on its own CIP island in a sea of lowly lesser-connected non CIP facilities. Like the chosen facilities in Michigan, but not all of them of course. Afterall, 30 million doesn't last forever and we cant have the kings eating crumbs. You think 8 mile is bad? Pshhhh. B-Rabbit is raking in his 2.4% @ D21 and spreading that cheese to the ghost of Brittany Murphy past and the entire D12 crew. Sure the money runs out in October but thats just in time for the 6.2% FICA cap to be hit and another de facto raise to kick in. More more more. More is better than less!! Keep feeding the machine, the corrupt old boys who all meet at NIW every year, and CFS, and the convention to circle jerk each other and get drunk and be somebody and plan further more impenetrable scams. CODE RED! Bar the doors! To the John the Bull Carr conference room! to the Bunker! Get fu*&cking Jim Mcgilvary on the phone and Sister Molly Eakin, theyre onto us!




P.S. dont @ me. im right and have studied the issue extensively and speak only pure unadulterated TRUTH.
 
Last edited:

sizziano

Trusted Contributor
Messages
228
UPDATE: I have solved the Great CIP Mystery. Turns out it was never truly a mystery to begin with, rather a scam of epic proportions. The truth is Controller incentive Pay is an FAA sanctified scam, that enables money to be funneled to the politically connected. Yes like ROC. A hellhole floating on its own CIP island in a sea of lowly lesser-connected non CIP facilities. Like the chosen facilities in Michigan, but not all of them of course. Afterall, 30 million doesn't last forever and we cant have the kings eating crumbs. You think 8 mile is bad? Pshhhh. B-Rabbit is raking in his 2.4% @ D21 and spreading that cheese to the ghost of Brittany Murphy past and the entire D12 crew. Sure the money runs out in October but thats just in time for the 6.2% FICA cap to be hit and another de facto raise to kick in. More more more. More is better than less!! Keep feeding the machine, the corrupt old boys who all meet at NIW every year, and CFS, and the convention to circle jerk each other and get drunk and be somebody and plan further more impenetrable scams. CODE RED! Bar the doors! To the John the Bull Carr conference room! to the Bunker! Get fu*&cking Jim Mcgilvary on the phone and Sister Molly Eakin, theyre onto us!




P.S. dont @ me. im right and have studied the issue extensively and speak only pure unadulterated TRUTH.

Read this in Alex Jones' voice. Everything makes sense now
 

Move78

Forum Sage
Messages
823
UPDATE: I have solved the Great CIP Mystery. Turns out it was never truly a mystery to begin with, rather a scam of epic proportions. The truth is Controller incentive Pay is an FAA sanctified scam, that enables money to be funneled to the politically connected. Yes like ROC. A hellhole floating on its own CIP island in a sea of lowly lesser-connected non CIP facilities. Like the chosen facilities in Michigan, but not all of them of course. Afterall, 30 million doesn't last forever and we cant have the kings eating crumbs. You think 8 mile is bad? Pshhhh. B-Rabbit is raking in his 2.4% @ D21 and spreading that cheese to the ghost of Brittany Murphy past and the entire D12 crew. Sure the money runs out in October but thats just in time for the 6.2% FICA cap to be hit and another de facto raise to kick in. More more more. More is better than less!! Keep feeding the machine, the corrupt old boys who all meet at NIW every year, and CFS, and the convention to circle jerk each other and get drunk and be somebody and plan further more impenetrable scams. CODE RED! Bar the doors! To the John the Bull Carr conference room! to the Bunker! Get fu*&cking Jim Mcgilvary on the phone and Sister Molly Eakin, theyre onto us!




P.S. dont @ me. im right and have studied the issue extensively and speak only pure unadulterated TRUTH.
ROC gets 1.9 cuz it's the jewel of the NAS
 

gunf1ghter

Lurker
FAA
Messages
6
Facility
ZMA Miami Center
I actually welcome any discussion to actually improve the distribution of CIP instead of just saying how much of a scam it is?
 

FightingIrish2012

Trusted Contributor
Messages
273
So what do you suggest?

For starters it could go to places that actual have problems attracting and retaining controllers. Which are very easy to find. Just see the thread... " NCEPT Debate thread". The problem is any facility who gets it now would scream bloody murder if it ever got reduced $1, as it has become a permanent entitlement for the haves, and a permanent no-go zone for the have nots. IE, a SCAM. As it is currently politically doled out, it would bebetter to just split it equally amongst all 320+ facilities until it ran out. If you arent at one of the chosen few facilities I think you have a better chance of undead Ed McMahon showing up with a check from Publisher's Clearing House than getting CIP!!! Scam scam scam scam scam, #CIPMysterySolved

View attachment 2639
Spread it out to every controller, it would be $2,100 or so a person. We don’t get Christmas bonuses or private sector perks like that so that would be good. Who the fuck are we or anyone else to classify what facilities are “desirable” or not, that is too subjective so share it equally.
 
Last edited:

Nhstadt

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
87
Facility
ADS Addison Tower
Another factor I didnt see anyone here mention is if an airport is in a dangerous/bad part of town. Dude I work with thought that's why ADS gets it. Don't know anything about ROC but maybe that explains why they get it and not the others in nearby cities?

What kind of gated golden palace do you live in that you think ADS is in a shitty area?

It's a "town" with the airport, and a bunch of restaurants and bars. Seriously. There's a couple of high-ish dollar for the area apartment buildings in the area and some more affordable ones on the boundary of N. Dallas, but even those are pretty nice. That's about it. Not shady or low rent at all. It's bordered by some of the more high dollar suburbs in the metroplex.
 

ajmezz

Forum Sage
Messages
480
Lmao. To mirror what nhstadt basically said, if you think the area around ADS is bad, you’ve been living in a damn bubble and have serious reality check coming your way if you happen to leave said bubble.
 

gunf1ghter

Lurker
FAA
Messages
6
Facility
ZMA Miami Center
So $2239 or so per controller. That's not a bad idea. But, it defeats the purpose (even if wrong) of attracting people to the "bad" facilities - even if no matter how poorly defined, so the FAA would probably say "nah" and remove it outright.

I think I would rather have it go towards a 25% or 50% training bonus pot that would increase your training pay per hour by that amount. Figure out what it would be to last 8-10 months and add that to it. "Training Incentive Pay"... You can only do that for so long before you don't have anyone to train, or so I think. Basically OJTI Pay + this TIP pay... to train.

So some other ideas: it would be on a revolving basis for the year, each year you take the lowest 25% staffed of the facilities (by percentage?) and divide it amongst them, but that also encourages people to stay low staffed (as some would argue with N90) so it probably wouldn't actually help anything, would it? (Or it would just change every year as a 12 person tower drops 2 numbers and becomes lowest staffed by % in the NAS)... so that makes it a little more complicated.

You could also say that we only give it to the lowest 4 centers (arguably the most hard to staff or 15% of centers) and then divvy the rest up to the lowest TRACONs/Up-Downs/Towers in the lowest 15% or something. Then atleast it's a reasonable amount of money, but you still run into the first thing above.


I'm at a CIP facility, we are 1.6% - so that means that I get around $2320 a year as a "bonus" but to be fair, my facility has been one of the lowest staffed Centers in the NAS for the past five years. But even if you paid me 10%, it's probably not enough to get me to stay, though I'd consider it. Cost of Living is way too high here, and our COLA doesn't make up for it.
 
Last edited:

Nhstadt

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
87
Facility
ADS Addison Tower
Lmao. To mirror what nhstadt basically said, if you think the area around ADS is bad, you’ve been living in a damn bubble and have serious reality check coming your way if you happen to leave said bubble.
Ya nothing is bad there above spring valley road between 35e and 75. A few little enclaves of section 8 goodness on spring valley Rd but other than that I'd describe the area as middle class to downright affluent.

Only crime in Addison is a few 30 thousand dollar millionaires getting in drunken fights over whose leased 3 series is the best after a ufc match.
 

MJ

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,166
So some other ideas: it would be on a revolving basis for the year, each year you take the lowest 25% staffed of the facilities (by percentage?) and divide it amongst them, but that also encourages people to stay low staffed (as some would argue with N90) so it probably wouldn't actually help anything, would it? (Or it would just change every year as a 12 person tower drops 2 numbers and becomes lowest staffed by % in the NAS)... so that makes it a little more complicated.
This is similar to what I would do. With access to more staffing data you could use it effectively for its intended purpose.
 
Top