When is IFR Cancelled?

[TushingPin]

Had someone tell me today that IFR is canceled when the Aircraft hits the missed approach point. Thats new to me.... I was always under the impression its when they're on the ground. So lets say a tower has a IFR inbound, he lands. His IFR is canceled right? Lets say the tower sends him around for a dwarf on the runway, IFR would NOT be canceled until he eventually lands, correct? Can someone point to me where it says that IFR is officially canceled? Thanks all.

 

[HenryTheAce]

That person is retarded….

 

[rhombus]

Whoever told you IFR is cancelled at the missed approach point probably shouldn’t be working traffic.

AIM 5-1-15 Canceling IFR Flight Plan

 

[Termine]

In the towered environment the IFR flight plan is canceled when the aircraft lands (not when they reach the threshold). Full stop. End of story.

In the non-towered environment the IFR flight plan is canceled when the aircraft is told "IFR cancellation received" (which will not happen until they first call ATC/FD/FSS to cancel IFR). Full stop. End of story.

Upon decision height or crossing threshold they should be VFR

Incorrect. They retain their IFR clearance until one of the following happens: They land, or they request to cancel. If they go around on an IFR approach they are still IFR and they must continue to be afforded IFR separation, whether in the local pattern or back out for re-sequencing with approach.

 

[Slarti Bartfast]

Upon decision height or crossing threshold they should be VFR

There is no decision height on a visual approach. At an uncontrolled airport the aircraft is IFR until they call you and say "Cancel IFR." They could do three touch and goes if they want to.

You're right that a visual has no missed approach procedure but they're still IFR on a go around, and even at a towered airport they could join a tower pattern, but still require IFR separation (which would probably be tower applied visual separation)

 

[rhombus]

Threshold in a controlled tower environment and when they cancel on the deck at a satellite airport?

Could they be thinking of clearing a preceeding aircraft at a satellite by the FAF?

Planes go around after the threshold all the time. How would that work if an airliner went around over the numbers in IMC conditions if they were no longer operating IFR?

 

[axman]

The only thing I could see this person confusing it with would be an overhead maneuver. Once they hit initial they are now VFR.
??‍♂️

 

[MJ]

Cleared direct…

"Proceed direct four-mile initial, cleared overhead Runway XX."

They proceed IFR to a four-mile initial, they automatically become VFR, they perform an overhead.

That's not even a valid clearance. 4-4-1. ROUTE USE Not to mention, there's an infinite number of cases where "direct" isn't applicable.

 

[MJ]

Why would you clear an aircraft for a visual approach that is going to the overhead? Thank makes zero sense.

Because they’re IFR and want to fly visually…

 

[tink]

View attachment 7938


That's not even a valid clearance. 4-4-1. ROUTE USE Not to mention, there's an infinite number of cases where "direct" isn't applicable.

We got a ruling on this years ago from the region.
We can send them direct a 5mile initial. It is a point in space.

No need to clear for a visual.

“Proceed to a 5 mile initial, contact tower.” is all we need to say.

If a cloud pops up and they can no longer maintain VFR after the initial point, well that’s what chapter 10 is for I guess.

 

[Termine]

There’s some approaches where it says you need to cancel ifr

I've never seen that, do you have an example? "Proceed visually" I've definitely seen but never something that says you must cancel IFR in order to fly the approach.

 

[CaptainObvious]

We have an airport like that (LDJ) but it’s not an automatic cancellation, they still have to tell us they can cancel and will proceed VFR otherwise execute the missed. It’s not cause of terrain but because of where it’s located compared to EWR.

Looking at that chart, like you said it’s not that they proceed VFR. They proceed visual to the airport. You just require a cancellation or send them missed based on your operations.

The only thing I could see this person confusing it with would be an overhead maneuver. Once they hit initial they are now VFR.
??‍♂️

But an overhead isn’t an instrument approach

 

[eltors0]

The only occasion I can think of that is even somewhat relevant to this question is when cleared on a visual approach, which is an IFR approach while under visual conditions, yet is not afforded the missed. Upon decision height or crossing threshold they should be VFR and they should state their intentions if they hit a layer or something or the approach is abandoned and there is no controlled tower to instruct them. Not sure I understand fully the premise because yeah that thought doesn’t make sense.

That isn’t even correct. There is no missed approach segment. They are IFR until landing complete or report cancelling IFR.

 

[PrisonMike]

Because they’re IFR and want to fly visually…

But they’re not IFR after they hit the initial. Cleared direct X for the initial, then the aircraft is VFR once they commence from the initial.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Only thing I could maybe see they meant is when I had non radar rules at the Z I was at. Sometimes the tower flowers would call and say “landing assured on xxx” which meant even though I didn’t get a down time, I could run the next one in

 

[slater]

Planes go around after the threshold all the time. How would that work if an airliner went around over the numbers in IMC conditions if they were no longer operating IFR?

They'd go to the published missed or otherwise specified MA given by approach and would remain IFR on that leg and were already protecting for beyond the clearance limit.

You would be protecting for the missed in both cases always.

 

[CaptainObvious]

yah they still have to cancel on ours but if they don’t it’s probably a pilot deviation I would think. But also without a tower it’s not really an automatic cancellation when they land either

Can you post up the approach. It’s still not clicking that proceed visually is not “proceed VFR”. You don’t say “cleared VFR approach”. Also how can an instrument approach force them to cancel IFR?

 

[32andBelow]

Can you post up the approach. It’s still not clicking that proceed visually is not “proceed VFR”. You don’t say “cleared VFR approach”. Also how can an instrument approach force them to cancel IFR?

I can’t I’m not at work. It’s a special

 

[MJ]

Can you post up the approach. It’s still not clicking that proceed visually is not “proceed VFR”. You don’t say “cleared VFR approach”. Also how can an instrument approach force them to cancel IFR?

I don't have a real world example, but conceptually, it would just be cleared to a point versus the airport. Same concept as clearing someone on a visual approach to the overhead, where IFR is automatically cancelled by agreement at a specified point. Also similar to making an approach at one airport to land at another that doesn't have any approaches. There wouldn't be automatic cancellation in that case, but it's the same idea essentially. I could see it being part of a published approach that IFR service is no longer provided after some point.

 

[TushingPin]

But they’re not IFR after they hit the initial. Cleared direct X for the initial, then the aircraft is VFR once they commence from the initial.

Yeah. Or just give them the Visual and they become VFR once they proceed to an initial..... the visual gives them the ability to line up to Initial. I have had this argument a few times and actually really hate it. A visual approach allows them to proceed visually, if they wanna go to initial then their IFR is canceled at that point. If for whatever reason they decide to go straight in on a visual approach then the IFR is canceled on the ground.