New time off between shifts mandate. Big change

[the inquirer]

Ohhh I like that!! Idk if we would be able to negotiate that or not. "Fiscal responsibility" blah blah.

We usually have 1-3 people on OT per day. We are regularly scheduled second RDO mids and yes it sucks. Another option would be to schedule a mid on the first day back and then have one swing and 3 days? Sucks too.

 

[ManBearPig]

We usually have 1-3 people on OT per day. We are regularly scheduled second RDO mids and yes it sucks. Another option would be to schedule a mid on the first day back and then have one swing and 3 days? Sucks too.

Yeah that would suck. Odds are we run the rattler with the 6 hr 3rd day shift for 2025. But, the writing is on the wall. Rattler and IMO the reverse rattler will die. Straight shifts I think will be pushed. This opinion is based on the management HR briefing yesterday.

 

[32andBelow]

Can they even force you to work a 10 hour shift without OT? If you don’t agree.

 

[Stinger]

For someone smarter than me:
Definition of a mid is where the majority of hours are between 10:30pm and 6:30am. So if you adjust your shift lengths and start times there's some goofy schedules that can be made. (no one would want to work a 9 hour shift starting at 2am for example... Or maybe some do).
Without a technical "mid shift" a lot of the rules disappear like the 5:30 start and 12 hour rules.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Can they even force you to work a 10 hour shift without OT? If you don’t agree.

No

 

[32andBelow]

No

So I don’t see how that’s going to work

 

[LEAD004]

Fear mongering is their number 1 tool. "Hey guys the district is start to look at sick leave usage" lol. "Hey guys gets this vaxx or get fired"

Seriously I have only seen or heard of 1 sick leave letter in like 15 years

Then you’re in a better district and probably a better region. They’re always “a thing” in my region.

On another note: some people will just always complain about everything. PPL? “Well, it should have been more.” OT reduced to only 2 consecutive weeks unless the employee volunteers? “Well, I don’t want any OT.” More time off in between shifts? “Well, we should have 14 hours off in between shifts.” Although I’m not saying I disagree with any of this person’s thoughts, can you just fucking give a little credit where credit is due for the wins our union has gotten us? It’s not just these few topics, there are wins happening every day and you idiots are so close-minded and out of touch that you have no idea it’s happening every day and all around you. It’s sickening. Just STFU with your constant whining. You probably contribute nothing to the union besides your dues and it’s apparent. I’m so over you people that complain all the time.

Rant over.

Go Natca. So many under-appreciated leaders out there, but I see you. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

 

[Jellismate]

Then you’re in a better district and probably a better region. They’re always “a thing” in my region.

On another note: some people will just always complain about everything. PPL? “Well, it should have been more.” OT reduced to only 2 consecutive weeks unless the employee volunteers? “Well, I don’t want any OT.” More time off in between shifts? “Well, we should have 14 hours off in between shifts.” Although I’m not saying I disagree with any of this person’s thoughts, can you just fucking give a little credit where credit is due for the wins our union has gotten us? It’s not just these few topics, there are wins happening every day and you idiots are so close-minded and out of touch that you have no idea it’s happening every day and all around you. It’s sickening. Just STFU with your constant whining. You probably contribute nothing to the union besides your dues and it’s apparent. I’m so over you people that complain all the time.

Rant over.

Go Natca. So many under-appreciated leaders out there, but I see you. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Hell yeah giving Nacta the ol' Hawk Tuah.

 

[Traffic8Out]

Then you’re in a better district and probably a better region. They’re always “a thing” in my region.

On another note: some people will just always complain about everything. PPL? “Well, it should have been more.” OT reduced to only 2 consecutive weeks unless the employee volunteers? “Well, I don’t want any OT.” More time off in between shifts? “Well, we should have 14 hours off in between shifts.” Although I’m not saying I disagree with any of this person’s thoughts, can you just fucking give a little credit where credit is due for the wins our union has gotten us? It’s not just these few topics, there are wins happening every day and you idiots are so close-minded and out of touch that you have no idea it’s happening every day and all around you. It’s sickening. Just STFU with your constant whining. You probably contribute nothing to the union besides your dues and it’s apparent. I’m so over you people that complain all the time.

Rant over.

Go Natca. So many under-appreciated leaders out there, but I see you. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

 

[ATCDave]

I retired in '16 at 56 doing a 2-2-1 (i.e. rattler) until my last shift. With an hour commute on each end.
Boston Center, area E (abutting ZNY and NY TRACON)
Loved it! You just got to get enough sleep...

 

[Soul_Controller]

4/10s with mid (or two mids) between split RDOs seems to be the best schedule to get out of this. Unless you have a bunch of people that want straight mids.

 

[KP-ATC]

4/10s with mid (or two mids) between split RDOs seems to be the best schedule to get out of this. Unless you have a bunch of people that want straight mids.

It's an interesting element, but you can't force people into AWS/CWS. If you build a schedule with those lines, it becomes a problem if it gets forced on those towards the bottom of the seniority list. I like the idea but you need the right buy-in at your facility.

 

[Nothanks]

It's an interesting element, but you can't force people into AWS/CWS. If you build a schedule with those lines, it becomes a problem if it gets forced on those towards the bottom of the seniority list. I like the idea but you need the right buy-in at your facility.

Can you define AWS using the contract?

 

[Geeare27]

Can you define AWS using the contract?

It's extremely clear in article 34

 

[32andBelow]

It's an interesting element, but you can't force people into AWS/CWS. If you build a schedule with those lines, it becomes a problem if it gets forced on those towards the bottom of the seniority list. I like the idea but you need the right buy-in at your facility.

I won’t be agreeing to straight pay 10 hour shifts to make a 6 shit work that’s for sure! I’ll agree for a 3rd day off

 

[Nothanks]

It's extremely clear in article 34

Define exactly what Aws means per the contract then. And quote it

 

[bravounite33]

Define exactly what Aws means per the contract then. And quote it

Just waiting for the realization where they figure out that they are already working an AWS and had no idea...

 

[LEAD004]

Just waiting for the realization where they figure out that they are already working an AWS and had no idea...

Exactly.

 

[Geeare27]

Just waiting for the realization where they figure out that they are already working an AWS and had no idea...

??? Yes I'm aware flexing and earning credit is an AWS, which is why we need to agree to it

Define exactly what Aws means per the contract then. And quote it

Article 34 Section 1 defines a basic work week as 5 consecutive 8 hour shifts. Management may consider deviations from this at an employees request

Article 34 Section 4 defines that an AWS must be agreed to in writing, and Section 5 defines two types of AWS, a Flexible Work Schedule and a Compressed Work Schedule. A Flexible Work Schedule (Maxiflex 40, being what the majority of people work) is what allows you to flex and earn credit. It's all pretty fuckin straightforward lol

A Compressed Work Schedule is 4 fixed 10 hour shifts or 8x9 hour shifts plus an 8 hour shift every pay period (note that it says nothing about consecutive)

And none of that changes the original point, which is that the FAA can not force someone onto an AWS

 

[bravounite33]

??? Yes I'm aware flexing and earning credit is an AWS, which is why we need to agree to it


Article 34 Section 1 defines a basic work week as 5 consecutive 8 hour shifts. Management may consider deviations from this at an employees request

Article 34 Section 4 defines that an AWS must be agreed to in writing, and Section 5 defines two types of AWS, a Flexible Work Schedule and a Compressed Work Schedule. A Flexible Work Schedule (Maxiflex 40, being what the majority of people work) is what allows you to flex and earn credit. It's all pretty fuckin straightforward lol

A Compressed Work Schedule is 4 fixed 10 hour shifts or 8x9 hour shifts plus an 8 hour shift every pay period (note that it says nothing about consecutive)

And none of that changes the original point, which is that the FAA can not force someone onto an AWS

No controller should be working a 4-10 schedule as CWS. If you are, talk to your rep and get it changed to a Maxiflex 40 - 4-10 schedule. There is actually no reason to work it as CWS.

And did you volunteer to work a Maxiflex 40 schedule in writing? It is AWS after all...