2024 NATCA President Election

[Wizard]

You heard it boys. No raises for anybody until teachers get something.

I think it’s safe to say if Rich Santa was representing teachers they would be mega fucked.

 

[Atcbrownie]

It can be. They can elect to get their checks all year

In some counties you are correct, you can elect to spread your 9 ish months of pay across 12 months. Regardless, as a teacher, the summer isn't 100% time off. Some of it is spent attending courses that they have to pay for to keep their license.

 

[SquawkHijack]

There are no atc2 elections. When I say I’m the 99x elected President the NDJH people freak out that they didn’t vote for me so I’ve run with it and they’ve lost it every time

Will you stop already? No one cares about your stupid Reddit sub-thread. I see you in the regular r/ATC all the time saying things like “don’t get mad at me I’m just the president of r/atc2, I can’t get you a raise bro.” Cool you created a thread and then sucked off Rich Santa… we get it.

 

[Phanatical]

So ready for that sub to die after the election, you cannot believe.

 

[jorgeluis161]

There are no atc2 elections. When I say I’m the 99x elected President the NDJH people freak out that they didn’t vote for me so I’ve run with it and they’ve lost it every time

No... We all know you are full of shit and just laugh at you for being a moron. No one in their right mind would believe the garbage you spew or would ever vote for you...

“They’ve lost it….” Rightfully so. I’ve seen some of your posts- I think you’ve lost your mind.

Lenny and that sub are trash.

 

[echster]

If someone leaves the union are they still entitled to NATCA representation?

This is long but a subject I really enjoy...

Yes. As the exclusive bargaining representative, NATCA has a duty of fair representation under the National Labor Relations Act. The doctrine of the duty of fair representation is judicially-created law. The Supreme Court of the United States, in Vaca v. Sipes, held that the duty of fair representation requires unions to represent or negotiate on behalf of the employees in its bargaining unit and to conduct itself in a manner that is not “arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith.”

What is arbitrary? In Vaca v. Sipes, the SCOTUS noted that “a union breaches its duty of fair representation if it ignores a meritorious grievance or processes it in a perfunctory manner.” Generally, a union is expected to conduct at least a perfunctory investigation into the merits of a grievance in order to satisfy its duty of fair representation. In another SCOTUS case, Air Line Pilots Association, International v. O’Neill, the Court held that arbitrary actions are ones which “can be fairly characterized as so far outside a ‘wide range of reasonableness,’ that it is wholly ‘irrational’ or ‘arbitrary’.”

What is discriminatory? A union is required by law to apply its policies and procedures in a fair and consistent manner towards all members within the bargaining unit. In another SCOTUS case, Amalgamated Association of Street, Electric Railway and Motor Coach Employees of America, etc. v. Lockridge, the Court held that a complainant filed against a union for failure to represent must show “substantial evidence of discrimination that is intentional, severe, and unrelated to legitimate union objectives” to prove a certain union conduct to be discriminatory. A union can breach its duty of fair representation in a discriminatory manner when it fails to represent two employees in an equivalent manner without any rational reasons, even though both of them were similarly situated. Not every discriminatory-like decision made by a union is unlawful. For example, if you retain private counsel, and the union's bylaws authorize the union to withdraw its representation when a member has private counsel, then there is no breach of the duty of fair representation. In another SCOTUS case, Humphrey v. Moore, the Court held that unions favoring employees with more seniority over those who have less seniority is not discriminatory and is a valid and justifiable reason to support unequal treatment.

What is bad faith? In Humphrey v. Moore, the SCOTUS held that a union’s actions are in bad faith if the complainant presents “substantial evidence of fraud, deceitful action or dishonest conduct by the union”. Bad faith is extremely difficult to prove and there is practically no case law into "bad faith" practices.

The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) will regard a breach of the duty of fair representation as an unfair labor practice. However, a dissatisfied member must prove more than poor performance or mistakes by the union. According to the NLRB, "mere negligence, poor judgment or ineptitude in grievance handling is insufficient to establish a breach of the duty of fair representation." Examples of a union's breach of duty to fair representation include:

- Failing to file a timely grievance
- Failing to thoroughly investigate a grievance
- Withdrawing a grievance
- Settling a grievance without a full remedy
- Failing to take a legitimate grievance to arbitration
- Failing to prepare for arbitration
- Mishandling an arbitration

A union has to initiate at least a perfunctory investigation into the merits of a potential grievance. However, not every complaint has to be grieved. For example, if the union has good-faith belief that the complaint is unfounded, unwinnable, or without any basis in the contract, a grievance need not be lodged at step one of the process. If the union does grieve and you lose or don't like the outcome, the union can choose to not pursue any further steps in the grievance process on your behalf, to include arbitration. In addition, the union may settle your grievance at any step of the process - even if you don't agree with the settlement. So long as the union has performed in a manner that is not “arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith,” you have little to no recourse.

Finally, I think a lot of members have confusion or a lack of knowledge on this matter. Think of it like this: A union has a duty to represent, not a duty to defend.

 

[Raise when?]

So ready for that sub to die after the election, you cannot believe.

or you could just not visit it....but yeah...

 

[LennyA21]

Will you stop already? No one cares about your stupid Reddit sub-thread. I see you in the regular r/ATC all the time saying things like “don’t get mad at me I’m just the president of r/atc2, I can’t get you a raise bro.” Cool you created a thread and then sucked off Rich Santa… we get it.

I’m banned from ATC, so no you don’t see me there.

I think it’s safe to say if Rich Santa was representing teachers they would be mega fucked.

I just asked a teacher friend if they’d want one of the teachers of the years being punched in the face by a union leader or if they’d enjoy seeing some of the teachers on a yacht party paid by their dues and they laughed and said what union would ever want that.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I truly believe we’re at a breaking point with this career.

Just to chime in here with what I've said before...This is an OK job. However, 10 years ago this was a great job. You could choose to have a stay at home partner and a modest car or two and live on a budget at most facilities. That isn't a majority of facilities anymore. There are a few things we could renegotiate and a few things that would make it better without renogotiation. For the sake of brevity I have a list at the bottom.

The breaking point is the lack of movement, imagine being stuck at a 7 or below with simply no hope of going anywhere.

Currently, I'd imagine most controller homes are dual income...but that wasn't what I imagined getting in, and that wasn't the necessity when the contract was signed.

And seriously what's wrong with saying you have 4 hours of elms assignments and give the option to go home and do them. Or you have one hour on your Friday to double check your paystub, check your email, etc. We are responsible for office stuff with no office time?

(tiered overtime, student loan matching up to 5% when you have to pick between student loans and tsp contributions, telecommute days/half-days for elms, a bank of leave for EVERY holiday early dismissal we miss)

 

[Move78]

I just asked a teacher friend if they’d want one of the teachers of the years being punched in the face by a union leader or if they’d enjoy seeing some of the teachers on a yacht party paid by their dues and they laughed and said what union would ever want that.

You’re a trash simp. The boat was a 3 region wide solidarity event at the convention. But keep up your propaganda sub and cut this union in half with a dull knife. Your pimps cant win on their record so they’re throwing mud to blur the picture. Because the incumbency is a horror show.

 

[Jayyy Jayyy]

If someone leaves the union are they still entitled to NATCA representation?

Yes. And they can still participate in all things possible because of the union (example: NCEPT)

NCEPT, as terrible as it is, is the only means we have at our disposal to transfer (and achieve legitimate movement)

A non-member can:

-wash out on their first ERR
-decline a second ERR
-be ranked last on the manager’s rankings on their third attempt

And still swoop in and steal the last ERR a hopeless Level 7 will have for 2-3 years. Screw me and my #1 ranking to a Level 12.

I can think of no more perfect encapsulation as to why NCEPT is fundamentally broken and needs major overhaul. But also serves to answer the original question.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Yes. And they can still participate in all things possible because of the union (example: NCEPT)

NCEPT, as terrible as it is, is the only means we have at our disposal to transfer (and achieve legitimate movement)

A non-member can:

-wash out on their first ERR
-decline a second ERR
-be ranked last on the manager’s rankings on their third attempt

And still swoop in and steal the last ERR a hopeless Level 7 will have for 2-3 years. Screw me and my #1 ranking to a Level 12.

I can think of no more perfect encapsulation as to why NCEPT is fundamentally broken and needs major overhaul. But also serves to answer the original question.

So you shouldn't get to transfer unless you're in Natca? Am I reading that correctly?

 

[LennyA21]

You’re a trash simp. The boat was a 3 region wide solidarity event at the convention. But keep up your propaganda sub and cut this union in half with a dull knife. Your pimps cant win on their record so they’re throwing mud to blur the picture. Because the incumbency is a horror show.

What did the other regions do? Where did nick and Jamaal announce their candidacy?

I’ll answer since you won’t. Every other region went to a restaurant. Nick and Jamaal announced on a yacht. The math was also done here on pointsixtyfive and the yacht cost more than any other regions dinners.

 

[Phanatical]

What did the other regions do? Where did nick and Jamaal announce their candidacy?

I’ll answer since you won’t. Every other region went to a restaurant. Nick and Jamaal announced on a yacht. The math was also done here on pointsixtyfive and the yacht cost more than any other regions dinners.

Transportation was not provided to get to the restaurants in many cases and was at an additional cost. I have already debunked this myth. The dinner provided for these 3 regions was at a similar cost as the other options.

 

[LennyA21]

Transportation was not provided to get to the restaurants in many cases and was at an additional cost. I have already debunked this myth. The dinner provided for these 3 regions was at a similar cost as the other options.

You also said Jamaal didn’t call facilities welfare facilities at the convention, actually said I was lying. Then when I provided the audio, you just went silent on that topic.

 

[Move78]

What did the other regions do? Where did nick and Jamaal announce their candidacy?

I’ll answer since you won’t. Every other region went to a restaurant. Nick and Jamaal announced on a yacht. The math was also done here on pointsixtyfive and the yacht cost more than any other regions dinners

Who cares where they announced. They were going to announce at the regional event at convention regardless of where it was. And Jamaal isn’t an RVP and has nothing to do with planning a regional event at convention.
Who gets mad about a different regions event? The members in those regions can take it up with those RVPs.
Some entire regions like New England and Alaska are the size of a large center.
Yeah the budget in South Dakota is less than New York.
Set the budgets and enforce them, it’s simple. Your posts are strictly political.

It’s written in the meeting minutes, of course it’s not forever, but if we’re scared to negotiate against a potential republican president, there will always be a potential republican president.

It’s literally the title of their videos. These campaign video lies are what happens when your ethics blow. Integrity would have saved us. Bad leaders empower bad actors. I pity whoever wins because they will be reduced to a joke to their counterpart. How could anyone in management take us seriously after seeing these campaign videos or reading any of your team’s bullshit lies on atc2. It’s a sabotage

 

[LennyA21]

It’s literally the title of their videos. These campaign video lies are what happens when your ethics blow. Integrity would have saved us. Bad leaders empower bad actors. I pity whoever wins because they will be reduced to a joke to their counterpart. How could anyone in management take us seriously after seeing these campaign videos or reading any of your team’s bullshit lies on atc2. It’s a sabotage

Actually the very first post on r/ATC during the campaigns was an attack on Rich by NDJH supporters. You think the Rinaldi/Zilonis election was “clean”. If there was no attack on a candidate I supported and NDJH just stuck with what they were going to do I would have stayed out. I don’t have a team on Reddit those are individuals who have personally dealt with the shit show that is NDJH. Just because the guy who buys you beer with my dues money sucks doesn’t mean people don’t need to know that

Who cares where they announced. They were going to announce at the regional event at convention regardless of where it was. And Jamaal isn’t an RVP and has nothing to do with planning a regional event at convention.
Who gets mad about a different regions event? The members in those regions can take it up with those RVPs.
Some entire regions like New England and Alaska are the size of a large center.
Yeah the budget in South Dakota is less than New York.
Set the budgets and enforce them, it’s simple. Your posts are strictly political.

Actually Nick has never been in his budget so yeah he should definitely pay back what he’s gone over I agree.

It’s literally the title of their videos. These campaign video lies are what happens when your ethics blow. Integrity would have saved us. Bad leaders empower bad actors. I pity whoever wins because they will be reduced to a joke to their counterpart. How could anyone in management take us seriously after seeing these campaign videos or reading any of your team’s bullshit lies on atc2. It’s a sabotage

Sabotage? Like an RVP from region X releasing a hit piece video in it and saying oh I don’t know if this video will get out to the members but randomly the NDJH campaign shared it. That wasn’t an endorsement of NDJH that was an attack on the President of our union. That was okay though? Or Marinetti staying involved because he’s been promised a National job if Nick wins, that’s definitely ethical right? Gtfo of here with that high horse. I call out the shit they do, they promise positions that come out of our dues.

 

[jorgeluis161]

Sabotage? Like an RVP from region X releasing a hit piece video in it and saying oh I don’t know if this video will get out to the members but randomly the NDJH campaign shared it. That wasn’t an endorsement of NDJH that was an attack on the President of our union. That was okay though? Or Marinetti staying involved because he’s been promised a National job if Nick wins, that’s definitely ethical right? Gtfo of here with that high horse. I call out the shit they do, they promise positions that come out of our dues.

Lol have proof of them promising Marienetti a gig if they win? Because you sure love to spew garbage without much or any proof at all.

 

[Phanatical]

Sabotage? Like an RVP from region X releasing a hit piece video in it and saying oh I don’t know if this video will get out to the members but randomly the NDJH campaign shared it. That wasn’t an endorsement of NDJH that was an attack on the President of our union. That was okay though? Or Marinetti staying involved because he’s been promised a National job if Nick wins, that’s definitely ethical right? Gtfo of here with that high horse. I call out the shit they do, they promise positions that come out of our dues.

You also callously attack members by name on an Internet forum for the whole world to see. Some real hurtful shit too towards those not running for elected positions.

 

[32andBelow]

Can you guys stop Fighting. JD is gonna win so it doesn’t matter