DOT holiday time off

Electricfence

Trusted Contributor
Messages
356
Dude doesn't understand such a simple concept. If the rest of the DoT gets it then we should get it too. I understand facilities have to be staffed so give us admin leave/time off award to use later. It's not rocket science.
No I understand. I just think it’s absolutely pathetic to complain about 3 hours totaling at most $285 before taxes if you are capped at a level 12. Which I’m confident not one of us is.

Edit: people who complain about this are the same people who complain about government waste and are the biggest offenders of coming back late from break, bitching about someone calling out sick screwing up their break rotation for the day, are late to work. It’s always those people that complain about stupid crap like this.
 
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Soham

Trusted Contributor
Messages
178
No I understand. I just think it’s absolutely pathetic to complain about 3 hours totaling at most $285 before taxes if you are capped at a level 12. Which I’m confident not one of us is.

Edit: people who complain about this are the same people who complain about government waste and are the biggest offenders of coming back late from break, bitching about someone calling out sick screwing up their break rotation for the day, are late to work. It’s always those people that complain about stupid crap like this.

We don't deserve paid parental leave either right? All federal jobs get it but we're compensated already right? Where does it end? You have a line in your head where you're fine with being screwed over. Mines just not as generous.

Also $285 or even $200 over a career adds up. I don't care about money though. I care about time off.
 
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Atcbrownie

Member
Messages
48
No I understand. I just think it’s absolutely pathetic to complain about 3 hours totaling at most $285 before taxes if you are capped at a level 12. Which I’m confident not one of us is.

Edit: people who complain about this are the same people who complain about government waste and are the biggest offenders of coming back late from break, bitching about someone calling out sick screwing up their break rotation for the day, are late to work. It’s always those people that complain about stupid crap like this.
I wouldn't be so confident... I however, did get the 3 hours.

Look, there is always going to be someone that gets something that you don't. You can either choose to be disgruntled about the fact that they got something you didn't or you can choose to recognize that you got something that they did not get.

I have numerous examples of this. Forget about what you didn't get and be grateful for what you did. You will get yours.

Choose to be positive rather than negative. That doesn't mean don't fight for yours but rather, understand that complaining about what everything gets that you don't means nobody gets anything.

Asking NATCA to fight these 3 hour early goes doesn't get you anything. All it does is take it away from someone else. If NATCA fights this the 3 hours goes away. You, a line controller at BFE airport will never see this by NATCA pushing. The 3 hours simply goes away.

Is that really your goal?

Forget the concept of they got this so I deserve that. It's not how this works.
 

Electricfence

Trusted Contributor
Messages
356
I wouldn't be so confident... I however, did get the 3 hours.

Look, there is always going to be someone that gets something that you don't. You can either choose to be disgruntled about the fact that they got something you didn't or you can choose to recognize that you got something that they did not get.

I have numerous examples of this. Forget about what you didn't get and be grateful for what you did. You will get yours.

Choose to be positive rather than negative. That doesn't mean don't fight for yours but rather, understand that complaining about what everything gets that you don't means nobody gets anything.

Asking NATCA to fight these 3 hour early goes doesn't get you anything. All it does is take it away from someone else. If NATCA fights this the 3 hours goes away. You, a line controller at BFE airport will never see this by NATCA pushing. The 3 hours simply goes away.

Is that really your goal?

Forget the concept of they got this so I deserve that. It's not how this works.
You said this very well. This is how I feel. I’m also not saying shut up and deal with it on every issue, but rather realize what’s truly worth fighting for and realize sometimes fighting makes it worse for others, as you stated. again, well said.

My confidence was directed at the people who were arguing with me on this one particular issue, not at the people on point sixty five as a whole
 

Soham

Trusted Contributor
Messages
178
Let me guess, just shut up and thank NATCA profusely for generously providing a 1.6% raise for us

I was pretty fine with the 1.6% since compounding that each year with the presidential raise isn't too bad. I've just grown a bit disgruntled because what has NATCA honestly done for me lately? You have to fight to get things. Do I think they should fight for the 3 hours of time off for Christmas Eve or whatever for the thousands of controllers? Maybe, maybe not.

- PPL - no matter how much I'd like to defend NATCA, everyone else got it so it wasn't much of a win.
- Overall most hate NCEPT.
- The raise is minimal.
- The contract was pushed into the middle of a potential republican presidency so they can fuck us.

Now NATCA did get me some sweet 5 on 5 off and if the media wanted they could crucify us for it, but I still had to come to work and work harder with less people while many earned their paycheck in their pajamas working from home.

I just don't get why so many are fine with accepting the status quo. I argued with several people on here trying to defend NATCA but at the end of the day they're supposed to be doing more for us. Not wasting my money for these dumbass conferences and making it harder to move to busier facilities.
 

Peter Gibbons

Legendary Member
Messages
2,057
I'm 50/50 on this post.
I was pretty fine with the 1.6% since compounding that each year with the presidential raise isn't too bad. I've just grown a bit disgruntled because what has NATCA honestly done for me lately?
true
You have to fight to get things.
True
- PPL - no matter how much I'd like to defend NATCA, everyone else got it so it wasn't much of a win.
Natca bungled this one and then had to go lobby to have it righted, then turned around and said "look what we got you!" That's your PAC money at work I tell ya.

- Overall most hate NCEPT.
As they should, this a HUGE failure on the unions part, they need to own up on it amd make it right.

- The raise is minimal.
That compounding 1.6 plus anything not contractual we get adds up fast, much faster than you'd probably see in the private sector on a 5 year or so span staying in the same job with the same employer.

- The contract was pushed into the middle of a potential republican presidency so they can fuck us.
As much as I see this getting explained away by some..... 💯

Now NATCA did get me some sweet 5 on 5 off and if the media wanted they could crucify us for it,
true
but I still had to come to work and work harder with less people while many earned their paycheck in their pajamas working from home.
I dunno dude, working a full time job from the house while you are possibly trying to kid wrangle/home school sounds pretty extra shitty to me, plus all the other distractions, and the isolation etc. Nah fuck that.

I just don't get why so many are fine with accepting the status quo. I argued with several people on here trying to defend NATCA but at the end of the day they're supposed to be doing more for us. Not wasting my money for these dumbass conferences and making it harder to move to busier facilities.
True again.
 

MikeSierra

Trusted Contributor
Messages
95
But someone still has to come in. What are you not understanding? This is not a how it’s always been thing. Also, We as controllers had that ability for that extra time, yes it’s inconsistent and the guidance was provided to managers, union reps should also be aware and help to advocate on your behalf on how to build the shift rotation to allow as many people to leave on that admin leave. As a facrep I used my free time to help with that. The nature of our job just doesn’t allow everyone to leave, it’s impossible. It’ll never happen unless you close the facility.

And the snow leave is a stupid example. everyones area near the facility does it different. Some states handle snow better than others while Dallas can’t handle 2 inches, Vermont people would say I could get to work, so consistency is also impossible. Some people live 1+ away, just cuz you choose to live that far does that mean someone who lives 10 mins away should be responsible to show up just cuz you live so far and are requesting Snow leave, again prove it and your fac rep and managers will approve it somehow or tell you to go screw. You were also compensated for your snow leave!!!! If it was so bad how did you get in?
Well NATCA's first priority is it's members now, not safety.. so I think they should fight for equal time off for it's members, right?....
 

Electricfence

Trusted Contributor
Messages
356
Well NATCA's first priority is it's members now, not safety.. so I think they should fight for equal time off for it's members, right?....
They probably did ask and were told how stupid the request was since it only affected the people who had to stay the full 3 hours at the end of their shift.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
7,309
No I understand. I just think it’s absolutely pathetic to complain about 3 hours totaling at most $285 before taxes if you are capped at a level 12. Which I’m confident not one of us is.

Edit: people who complain about this are the same people who complain about government waste and are the biggest offenders of coming back late from break, bitching about someone calling out sick screwing up their break rotation for the day, are late to work. It’s always those people that complain about stupid crap like this.
It’s not the money. It’s the time off. Rather leave 3 hours early. Or 1 hour early 3 times.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
7,309
Leaving early and money are the same thing to them in this example. Either way they are paying extra for time worked or paying you to not work.
Credits free to them tho. Working 3 hours and then 3 hours of credit is the same. They aren’t calling in OT to cover that credit
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
2,574
Credits free to them tho. Working 3 hours and then 3 hours of credit is the same. They aren’t calling in OT to cover that credit
Them giving us three hours of credit leave is the exact same as them giving us three hours of straight pay… so not free to them. When you stay extra* and work to earn the credit in that case it costs them nothing since the work was performed.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
7,309
Them giving us three hours of credit leave is the exact same as them giving us three hours of straight pay… so not free to them. When you stay extra* and work to earn the credit in that case it costs them nothing since the work was performed.
It literally costs them the same
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
7,309
How does them giving you three free hours of leave cost them the same when you aren’t earning it? You are asking for straight pay for three hours which isn’t free. It’s not rocket science.
Because your salary doesn’t change. If anything they save money cus they aren’t paying you differentials.

Your just not there but your getting paid. The cost to the faa is unchanged
 

Termine

⭐SuperStar
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
639
Talking about "cost" is always kind of funny to me in this context. You need to have enough controllers in the building to work enough positions as traffic warrants, plus enough extra controllers to run a sensical break rotation. Once you have that baseline, opening up a position that doesn't need to be open given the traffic and workload isn't a "mOrE EfFiCiEnT UsE Of hUmAn rEsOuRcEs" and having that person on break or at home on credit leave isn't a "cOsT" in that you're paying them for unrealized labor. But the accountants see it that way.
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
2,574
Talking about "cost" is always kind of funny to me in this context. You need to have enough controllers in the building to work enough positions as traffic warrants, plus enough extra controllers to run a sensical break rotation. Once you have that baseline, opening up a position that doesn't need to be open given the traffic and workload isn't a "mOrE EfFiCiEnT UsE Of hUmAn rEsOuRcEs" and having that person on break or at home on credit leave isn't a "cOsT" in that you're paying them for unrealized labor. But the accountants see it that way.
I can see that point of view but I personally see it from the other side lol. Hard for me not to. Considering we should have 10 on the day and night shifts and regularly work with 5 you could fully staff us and leave 5 at home each shift and say it costs the agency nothing.

Credit is paid out in full when you retire I believe so it could actually cost them lol.
 
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