Enroute Class pass rate

[RadarRick]

All im saying is the union president shouldn't be describing a system where people have given the agency a Decade of honest work, and not had the ability to ever transfer, as a "robust transfer system" to congress.

And I think most people are starting to realize that it doesnt matter if you are from a big or small facility, if you aren't "in the club", NATCA doesnt really care. Keep working those 6 day weeks UFN!

 

[HenryTheAce]

If you were hired at the beginning of the BQ stuff, went to the Academy 2014-2016 and placed at an ARTCC, theres a very high chance you will you go your entire career without ever having an opportunity to transfer, besides becoming an FLM. You had to certify fast, and transfer immediately after CPCing, or youre fucked. The first of those controllers are going to be hitting a Decade in the agency next year, and i would say at least 80% of them are stuck.

According to Rich Santa's congressional testimony, thats a "Robust Transfer system"

Truth! I was fortunate enough to be one of those controlles and gtfo of there.. but so many of my friends are all stuck with no hope as transferring as a controller…. Yet natca sits back and supports NCEPT when we continue to lose staffing to management

 

[Papacharlie327]

So the union should fight for the betterment of staffing of the nas as a whole... or for everyone's ability to transfer to where they want to be? Because you can't please everyone. And it is literally impossible for everyone to go home... or chase the money... or transfer just to try something new. There will always be people stuck. Always.

It's ironic to me that for years the smaller towers have screamed about how natca nation doesn't care about them because the reps always come from centers/large facilities and their numbers are too small to impact elections so they're just forgotten. And now it's all the big facilities complaining that natca national is doing nothing to help them.

Then say that. People deserve to keep their money if there’s no hope for them

So the union should fight for the betterment of staffing of the nas as a whole... or for everyone's ability to transfer to where they want to be? Because you can't please everyone. And it is literally impossible for everyone to go home... or chase the money... or transfer just to try something new. There will always be people stuck. Always.

It's ironic to me that for years the smaller towers have screamed about how natca nation doesn't care about them because the reps always come from centers/large facilities and their numbers are too small to impact elections so they're just forgotten. And now it's all the big facilities complaining that natca national is doing nothing to help them.

NATCA should at least fucking try their best. That’s their fucking job. And your response sounds exactly like the NEB, completely disconnected from controllers at low level facilities who want a better life for their families. So they just have to listen to some shithead high level controller who got lucky in placement telling them to just deal with it. Fuck that. tell Richie rich not to go before Congress and say this is a robust transfer system. You are what you hate then…a lying ass member of the faa management. Be truthful to the members. And quit bringing us fucking pizza and acting like that shit fixes anything while they go to Hawaii and chop ahi tuna and steaks

 

[twn]

Then say that. People deserve to keep their money if there’s no hope for them

NATCA should at least fucking try. Don’t go before Congress and say this is a robust transfer system. You are what you hate then…a lying ass member of the faa management. Be truthful to the members. And quit bringing us fucking pizza and acting like that shit fixes anything while they go to Hawaii and chop ahi tuna and steaks

You guys are getting pizza?

 

[RalphBeast]

So the union should fight for the betterment of staffing of the nas as a whole... or for everyone's ability to transfer to where they want to be? Because you can't please everyone. And it is literally impossible for everyone to go home... or chase the money... or transfer just to try something new. There will always be people stuck. Always.

This wouldn't be true if direct hire were more common. It's insanity people from NY and Miami are getting mando sent to ANC airport, the greater Anchorage metro area has like 400k people, put up promotional flyers at every retail store, restaurant, community college, high school fair promoting ATC jobs, you'd easily get 20-30 people who certify and plan to stay in the area their entire careers. Every highly-undesirable area should be doing this.

For the rest, go back to regional hiring. I am originally from the south Chicago burbs and nowadays I wouldn't consider this career unless I got ZAU or ZID right out of the academy, maybe ZOB or ZMP. Getting stuck in some lvl 5 podunk shit dumpy hellhole backwoods tower, even in the midwest, and trying to work up to C90, ORD, ZAU is way too risky nowadays.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

We've already long ago determined that it takes an act of congress to do a local hiring. N90 was a one off and won't happen elsewhere no matter how many people here suggest it.

 

[acutetriangles]

Have they tried local hiring though?

 

[ChuckNovember]

We've already long ago determined that it takes an act of congress to do a local hiring. N90 was a one off and won't happen elsewhere no matter how many people here suggest it.

We already do it. People who live in Queens/LI get sent to TETRA

So the union should fight for the betterment of staffing of the nas as a whole... or for everyone's ability to transfer to where they want to be? Because you can't please everyone. And it is literally impossible for everyone to go home... or chase the money... or transfer just to try something new. There will always be people stuck. Always.

It's ironic to me that for years the smaller towers have screamed about how natca nation doesn't care about them because the reps always come from centers/large facilities and their numbers are too small to impact elections so they're just forgotten. And now it's all the big facilities complaining that natca national is doing nothing to help them.

You present them in opposition to each other when it's actually the polar opposite; they're inherently linked.

If we had just let that most recent OKC class the ability to chose where they go, we would have 5 more trainees in the system than we do now. Instead we spent 4 months training them and valuable MMAC slots only to have them resign on the last day when they were given a list. You can't argue that they HAD to go to those centers or the NAS would implode when the next week's list looked completely different.

Fighting for better staffing and fighting for controllers to have a better say in when they work are one in the same. Local hiring would not take an act of congress, that is and always has been false.

 

[bomber996]

This thread

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

My bad for derailing the thread.

We already do it. People who live in Queens/LI get sent to TETRA

Did you actually read what you replied to? Where I said N90 is the one off....

 

[ChuckNovember]

My bad for derailing the thread.


Did you actually read what you replied to? Where I said N90 is the one off....

So is it illegal or no?

 

[RalphBeast]

My bad for derailing the thread.


Did you actually read what you replied to? Where I said N90 is the one off....

N90 should be the gold standard nationwide, not a one off exception.

 

[Termine]

Local hiring would not take an act of congress, that is and always has been false.

My comment from another thread....

That was literally an Act of Congress. 49 USC 44506(f)(1)(C). (The general rule, at (f)(1)(B)(iii), is that they have to hire individuals "who apply under a vacancy announcement recruiting from all United States citizens.")

In this subparagraph the term “covered facility” means a radar facility with at least 1,000,000 operations annually that is located in a metropolitan statistical area (as defined by the Office of Management and Budget) with a population estimate by the Bureau of the Census of more than 15,000,000 (as of July 1, 2016).

There's only one such metro statistical area in the entire US, and it's NYC. In order for the FAA to do local bids Congress would have to change the law.
I think they should, mind you, but there's your answer for the moment.

 

[wrench978]

That was Santa’s excuse as to why they wouldn’t do a San Juan local bid as well… hopefully they change that law…

 

[Dolan]

NCEPT has killed the idea of "I'll probably be able to transfer home at some point in my career" for many of these Z's which was a great carrot on a stick to try and get people to work at shitty places. All of these grads now have all the numbers available to them from the get go and they know that certain transfers are just never going to happen in their careers.

Good for people to not get huge chunks of their lives wasted in the FAA and being able to move on to a different career while they're young. Bad for the people who have to deal with NCEPT keeping them stuck forever.

Making controllers miserable at the centers should really come back to bite NATCA at the national level but it really hasn't so far which surprises me. They actually have enough votes to get the problematic people out.

 

[RalphBeast]

NCEPT has killed the idea of "I'll probably be able to transfer home at some point in my career" for many of these Z's which was a great carrot on a stick to try and get people to work at shitty places. All of these grads now have all the numbers available to them from the get go and they know that certain transfers are just never going to happen in their careers.

Good for people to not get huge chunks of their lives wasted in the FAA and being able to move on to a different career while they're young. Bad for the people who have to deal with NCEPT keeping them stuck forever.

Making controllers miserable at the centers should really come back to bite NATCA at the national level but it really hasn't so far which surprises me. They actually have enough votes to get the problematic people out.

Honestly, aside from a handful of centers (ZOA, ZAN, ZNY etc.) most centers are in pretty tolerable areas. And ZAN is actually a sweet gig for someone from the area. I work at ZAU and life in the Western Chicago suburbs is quite comfortable on a CPC salary -good schools, low crime, reasonable housing (though taxes suck).

I feel kind of bad when I see guys with raging tower-boners (bEcAuSe oF tHe pReTtY viEw) get sent to remote areas of TX making lvl 4-5 pay with almost zero chance of ever transferring out. Terminal has some truly horrific facilities. That's why I wouldn't go into this career nowadays unless I were guaranteed enroute and got a facility within a 6-hour drive of the Chicago area (so basically ZMP, ZAU, ZID, or ZOB). I don't blame the guys that quit before even reaching their facility.

 

[KiloZulu]

The only blame those OKC students should get is for resigning before evals. Everyone knows you resign after you pass and have picked the mandatory ZOA.

 

[bomber996]

The only blame those OKC students should get is that they resigned before evals. Everyone know you resign after you pass and have picked the mandatory ZOA.

These are the kind of heroes who deserve cash bonuses.

 

[the inquirer]

Y'all trippin. I went to the best staffed facility on my list which was ZMP at the time. Now I'm at my desired facility which is where I'm from. When choosing a place to go, don't look at just the city, but the staffing and your chances to get out. Of course if home is already well staffed, then you prolly won't be able to transfer. But now i'm on 6 day weeks but I'm not missing my kids growing up with their cousins and not missing out on all holidays with the family. Also, don't be afraid to switch facility type. If you're able to separate traffic and follow rules, it's just a different section of the .65. HenryTheAce knows whats up

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

“NCEPT worked well for one of the 14,000 employees in the agency, so I don’t know why y’all are complaining!”- 1/14,000 guy who hit the NCEPT Lottery