February (Q2) 2022

[ZO]

They don’t send people to the lowest staffed facilities. Maybe they do for terminal. But for enough they send people everywhere. And there’s no reason the trainees can’t be swapped around before they even start training

Okay so your solution is for NATCA to propose to the agency, that enroute new hires, who aren't union members, just get to select whatever enroute facility they want? They are just a number that slots in to whatever model the agency is looking at, at that time.

 

[YeeeeYeeee]

Ya you’d have to force some people. But not everyone in the NAS basically. I bet you could get over half the en route grads close or where they want to go with effort. I know of someone who was denied Oakland when the next class got 3 mando Oakland

I know two prior experienced hires that got there lists and tols the exact same day. One ranked a facility in Florida where they wanted to be number one. The other ranked a facility in the Midwest where they wanted to be number one. Guess what they got? Opposite facilities, opposite states, and could’ve both went within 2 hours of their home.

 

[32andBelow]

Okay so your solution is for NATCA to propose to the agency, that enroute new hires, who aren't union members, just get to select whatever enroute facility they want? They are just a number that slots in to whatever model the agency is looking at, at that time.

NATCA can help the people trying to transfer by getting less people into the transfer process. Do you not here the constant complaints of people who check out and immediately bail? These are the people I’m talking about

 

[ZO]

NATCA can help the people trying to transfer by getting less people into the transfer process. Do you not here the constant complaints of people who check out and immediately bail? These are the people I’m talking about

That is exactly what they are doing, trying to minimize the transfers.

Edit: Goal number one is overall healthy staffing. Then it makes transferring much easier for everyone.

 

[32andBelow]

That is exactly what they are doing, trying to minimize the transfers.

Edit: Goal number one is overall healthy staffing. Then it makes transferring much easier for everyone.

The problem is you have people spending 30% or more of their career training just trying to go where they want to live

 

[Electricfence]

The problem is you have people spending 30% or more of their career training just trying to go where they want to

As soon as some home grown hick from El Paso or Billings realizes they can go to Dallas or Denver and make way more money, they are gone.

The problem of black hole facilities will still exist. You’ve solved one problem to creat another.

At some point you’ll either close facilities or force people to go there. Then those people will complain they can’t get out.

 

[Move78]

NATCA can help the people trying to transfer by getting less people into the transfer process. Do you not here the constant complaints of people who check out and immediately bail? These are the people I’m talking about

Can’t believe NATCA didn’t think of that. Just do all the hiring yourself Mr. Union. I’m sure the agency won’t mind

 

[32andBelow]

Can’t believe NATCA didn’t think of that. Just do all the hiring yourself Mr. Union. I’m sure the agency won’t mind

How is anyone supposed to know what NATCA thinks. That was my original point

 

[Move78]

They don’t send people to the lowest staffed facilities. Maybe they do for terminal. But for enough they send people everywhere. And there’s no reason the trainees can’t be swapped around before they even start training

The enroute placement list is organized the same way as terminal. So projected staffing plays a big factor in where they send enroute academy grads. They do limit the amount of duplicates per list so it’s not all the same few centers.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Said it before, say it again. Direct hire off the street bids for the hard to staff, bumfuck facilities no one wants to be at.

Sure you may have a some people who apply to BFE just to get in, but give the ATM some leeway to hire locally and I bet he or she can find some prospective controllers who will homestead where they are because they just want a good paying job with pension and bennies out there in BFE where they feel at home.

I bet you'd at least have more people not complaining about being there for longer durations if that's the case.

 

[Move78]

Lol they act like anyone wanted to do that and a lot of us worked on what we were certified on the whole time

NavCanada woulda laid you off

Even well staffed areas or center that never have OT and are constantly over daily numbers are deemed as understaffed. Something isn’t right.

Also this sounds like a dream. I bet the majority of the controllers in this center have a wonderful life. Not being overworked. 2 RDOs. Spot leave.

 

[32andBelow]

Also this sounds like a dream. I bet the majority of the controllers in this center have a wonderful life. Not being overworked. 2 RDOs. Spot leave.

But they can’t go home…I’d work more now problem if they were allowed to go home

 

[Dolan]

What’s equitable and fair?

It's hard for me to give you an answer. I can tell you what I think it means but half of the people here would jump down my throat.

Someone else said that article 60 needs to provide priority again. That would be a great place to start

 

[GulfCharlie]

Said it before, say it again. Direct hire off the street bids for the hard to staff, bumfuck facilities no one wants to be at.

Sure you may have a some people who apply to BFE just to get in, but give the ATM some leeway to hire locally and I bet he or she can find some prospective controllers who will homestead where they are because they just want a good paying job with pension and bennies out there in BFE where they feel at home.

I bet you'd at least have more people not complaining about being there for longer durations if that's the case.

Not disagreeing here however the legal obstacles just for that local N90 bid were astronomical and economically unviable.

 

[Move78]

It's hard for me to give you an answer. I can tell you what I think it means but half of the people here would jump down my throat.

Someone else said that article 60 needs to provide priority again. That would be a great place to start

Article 60 puts you at the front of the line and the receiving facility has no say. Even that isn’t unanimous. No receiving facility wants no say.
Everything at debate here has members on both sides. And you understand that because you’re right in that whatever your opinion is on ‘equitable and fair’ will draw support and dissent.

 

[32andBelow]

Why aren’t they letting well staffed facilities swap people straight across. That seems like a no brainer

 

[Move78]

But they can’t go home…I’d work more now problem if they were allowed to go home

They or you? How many of the 200 want to leave and how many want staffing? Our members working understaffed facilities are living unhealthy lives. It’s not their fault.

Why aren’t they letting well staffed facilities swap people straight across. That seems like a no brainer

You can. Any 2 green facilities can swap within 3 levels.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

Well at a start they can go back to the system where you apply for states. Wasn’t that change just an HR change for no reason? I think they can leave an all US option.

It wasn't an HR change according to a Natca rep. Apparently doing it by states or region facilities were still not getting enough people. The fix was sending those that finish at the bottom to the black holes.

 

[Pot_Stirrer]

It wasn't an HR change according to a Natca rep. Apparently doing it by states or region facilities were still not getting enough people. The fix was sending those that finish at the bottom to the black holes.

That explains some of the posts on this forum.

 

[Jay-Jay Jet Plane]

any word on Q3 dates?