What the FAA could do to make work suck less

[RB]

Ban on OT, force the agency to staff or reduce services. In return you get work-life balance, poorer due to less money for hookers & blackjack, and improved odds to make it past a year to collect pension.

Instead of banning it.. just make the yes/no list actually matter. If you're on the no list, all OT is voluntary. If you're on yes list it is assigned and you get priority on better shifts for it.

 

[TimShady]

SMH y’all’s logic don’t make sense one bit.

If I work 80 hours in a pay period with one day being a holiday. Let’s say I make $50 an hour since I gotta make it simple for you idiots. I made $4400 for the week. That comes out to $55 an hour.

If I worked 88 hours the next pay period with one day being OT, still at $50 an hour. I made $4600. That comes out to $52.27 an hour.

Simple math says 55 an hour is more valuable than 52.27 an hour.

Look if you think you’re getting a good deal for working holidays I don’t want to ruin it for you. But…

I can take Christmas off and work OT on one of my RDOs that week and you can work on Christmas and I’d make more money than you, and have Christmas off. And we’d both have 2 days off that week.

Here’s another way of looking at it: let’s say you put in for Christmas off and get it, so you have a 3 day weekend. Then you decide you want to make as much money as possible so you’re going to cancel the leave and work on Christmas. Your paycheck is 8 hours of straight time higher. Overtime shifts are worth more, period.

 

[Termine]

Simple math says 55 an hour is more valuable than 52.27 an hour.

But the other variable is how much time you have away from the facility in order to do your own things.

• Work the holiday. $4400 over 80 hours is $55 an hour; four days off.
• Bang on the holiday. $4000 total over 72 hours is $55.56 an hour; five days off.
• Normal pay period with no holiday and no OT. $4000 total over 80 hours is $50 an hour; four days off.
• One OT in an otherwise normal pay period. $4600 over 88 hours is $52.27 an hour; three days off.

It comes down to a judgement call: how much do you value your time off, how much do you value extra cash in your bank account, etc. Are you happy with four days off in a pay period even if there's a holiday or do you have family across the country and you need the long weekend. Do you have a kid in school and the holiday is a rare time when you're both free to go sledding or are you a bachelor and your friend group is happy to meet up on Xbox Live whenever works. Numbers only tell part of the story.

Shower thought edit: It's a min-max problem but there are three different parameters. Size of paycheck, effective hourly pay rate, or time off. Different people will have different priorities.

 

[CoffeeIV]

^^^ bomber996 here for RAZE NEVR MVMNT.

JFC dude, did CoffeeIV lure you into his management SIMP club?

We get paid for what we *can* do, not what we are always doing. You realize a 777 Captain makes as much on a single englne go-around during windshear as he does while sleeping back in the crew rest at cruise?

This is such a laughable take “guys we get lots of breaks so we shouldn’t get paid more!” Many surgeons take every Friday off…that means they should get paid less because most other people work Friday and they don’t?

Surgeons typically work far more hours than we do. Weird take. Plus all the schooling required compared to a high school diploma.that ATC requires. Proving my point that most people in this career field know little about the outside world.

Also comparing our job to a surgeon is laughable. Most of you couldn't actually kill people if you tried with all the fail safes now.

 

[POINTOUT]

Surgeons typically work far more hours than we do. Weird take. Plus all the schooling required compared to a high school diploma.that ATC requires. Proving my point that most people in this career field know little about the outside world.

Also comparing our job to a surgeon is laughable. Most of you couldn't actually kill people if you tried with all the fail safes now.

The vast majority of surgeons make 4x what someone at a level 6 makes.

 

[Fat Porrey]

Purchasing power from the salary has gotten worse. Work life balance due to 6 day weeks has gotten worse. I took the job agreeing to occasional OT and a middle to high salary, of which I now have neither. So yeah the "hurr durr you took de jerb knowin thems the conditerns" group can fuck right off.

This sounds to me like….”Dolan here for RAZE WEN MVMNT!”

Amen brother. Welcome to the club!

Surgeons typically work far more hours than we do. Weird take. Plus all the schooling required compared to a high school diploma.that ATC requires. Proving my point that most people in this career field know little about the outside world.

Also comparing our job to a surgeon is laughable. Most of you couldn't actually kill people if you tried with all the fail safes now.

Oh look, another shitty take from CoffeeIV

I’ll go out on a limb that I know about more surgeons than you because every surgeon I know works way less than me.

Keep SIMPing for RAZE NEVR thorough, the FAA thanks you for your cuckness.

 

[CoffeeIV]

The vast majority of surgeons make 4x what someone at a level 6 makes.

As they should. Our job isn't as hard as you people make it out to be. We're slowly becoming Air Traffic Monitors with all the systems in place to keep an incident from happening. TCAS is separating planes when controllers fuck up. RWSLs are keeping arrivals/departures from causing more incidents when controllers forget someone is on the runway. ASDE is instructing controllers when to issue go-arounds when the runway is still occupied. Whatever the name is for the STARS function that shows if the final is going to potentially work or not. CPDLC/PDC is issuing clearances. ADS-B is tracking aircraft more efficiently/giving call signs so you can reach out to nearly any aircraft on the scope.

Everything is getting easier. I realize most of you don't want to admit that but it is. You might have more phraseology to say but the system will eventually not need as many of us. Our job will one day be like the Walmart dude at the self-checkout.

 

[Raise when?]

Other than pay, which can make every other issue I have with the agency palatable...

I think every facility should have a gym, with a standard list of equipment. Treadmills, power racks with olympic sized barbells, a dumbbell rack that goes to 100 lbs, yoga mats, and enough space for 5-10 ppl at a time. Showers and changing rooms. My current facility has this, and it's really nice. Being able to get my workouts in is a really great perk.

 

[Raise when?]

As they should. Our job isn't as hard as you people make it out to be. We're slowly becoming Air Traffic Monitors with all the systems in place to keep an incident from happening. TCAS is separating planes when controllers fuck up. RWSLs are keeping arrivals/departures from causing more incidents when controllers forget someone is on the runway. ASDE is instructing controllers when to issue go-arounds when the runway is still occupied. Whatever the name is for the STARS function that shows if the final is going to potentially work or not. CPDLC/PDC is issuing clearances. ADS-B is tracking aircraft more efficiently/giving call signs so you can reach out to nearly any aircraft on the scope.

Everything is getting easier. I realize most of you don't want to admit that but it is. You might have more phraseology to say but the system will eventually not need as many of us. Our job will one day be like the Walmart dude at the self-checkout.

Technology fails. It is not infallible. It's all designed by humans, there will always be errors. Society and dumb people love to put all of their faith in technology yet it always fails them. Look at all the Tesla autopilot stories of tesla's killing people and crashing into fiery balls of flames lol

Another thing to consider is that you don't need to have a midair to sustain injuries. If you need to issue an "immediately" clearance, a person can get thrown and break limbs, or worse, hit their head....Don't disseminate pertinent wx information and they can run into severe icing or mod + turbulence, again throwing people around on board, or worse. There's a litany of situations that computers aren't capable of helping us with yet.

Most of the technological advances in our profession have eliminated the need for more staffing. But I do agree the job has gotten easier. The advent of RVSM airspace alone has made it way easier. Generally speaking a skilled controller is something that is truly taken for granted. You may degrade the profession...til something really bad happens. Then you'll wish you had someone skilled in that position, and would go back and pay any amount of money to fix what went wrong, except it will be too late...

 

[POINTOUT]

As they should. Our job isn't as hard as you people make it out to be. We're slowly becoming Air Traffic Monitors with all the systems in place to keep an incident from happening. TCAS is separating planes when controllers fuck up. RWSLs are keeping arrivals/departures from causing more incidents when controllers forget someone is on the runway. ASDE is instructing controllers when to issue go-arounds when the runway is still occupied. Whatever the name is for the STARS function that shows if the final is going to potentially work or not. CPDLC/PDC is issuing clearances. ADS-B is tracking aircraft more efficiently/giving call signs so you can reach out to nearly any aircraft on the scope.

Everything is getting easier. I realize most of you don't want to admit that but it is. You might have more phraseology to say but the system will eventually not need as many of us. Our job will one day be like the Walmart dude at the self-checkout.

You definitely work at a level 4 as a sup. Checks out.

Hey guys DHS just got 16 hours of leave for thanksgiving. Enjoy your day at work instead of eating dinner together and spending time together the day after. Best job in the world! /s

 

[CoffeeIV]

You definitely work at a level 4 as a sup. Checks out.

Never been at a 4 but sure. Youre probably the type that paid to go to Embry Riddle just to be ATC. The dumbest of all controllers.

 

[POINTOUT]

Never been at a 4 but sure. Youre probably the type that paid to go to Embry Riddle just to be ATC. The dumbest of all controllers.

Probably less than 5% of controllers went to embry. I’m not one of them. Sounds like some dumb shit a sup would say. Good try though.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Is it tiring logging in and out of so many alt accounts?

 

[Seymour Nips]

Then why don’t they

Because the interpretation of the rule varies. Some interpret it as the beginning of your shift and not the end while others can make the argument for the end of the shift. Most don’t want to rustle feathers and don’t offer it.

 

[Fat Porrey]

Is it tiring logging in and out of so many alt accounts?

Just because the majority of people on here think you’re a moron doesn’t mean that they’re all 1 person in different accounts.

Look how easy piloting has become. Planes are more automated than ever, yet pilots are making the biggest inflation adjusted pay rates, ever.

Keep fighting for how we are unskilled and deserve nothing! Your Level 4 tower loves you!

 

[CoffeeIV]

Just because the majority of people on here think you’re a moron doesn’t mean that they’re all 1 person in different accounts.

Look how easy piloting has become. Planes are more automated than ever, yet pilots are making the biggest inflation adjusted pay rates, ever.

Keep fighting for how we are unskilled and deserve nothing! Your Level 4 tower loves you!

Oh look, one of the alts defending the other. Shocker.

 

[Raise when?]

Purchasing power from the salary has gotten worse. Work life balance due to 6 day weeks has gotten worse. I took the job agreeing to occasional OT and a middle to high salary, of which I now have neither. So yeah the "hurr durr you took de jerb knowin thems the conditerns" group can fuck right off.

Welcome to the Razewen Legion, brother.

Oh look, one of the alts defending the other. Shocker.

wow…really Coffee? REALLY? That’s low, smh….

 

[BDUB]

Oh look, one of the alts defending the other. Shocker.

I prey for a raise so this site isn’t complete garbage with the same person saying raze when every two posts it’s so obnoxiously annoying

 

[bomber996]

Just because the majority of people on here think you’re a moron doesn’t mean that they’re all 1 person in different accounts.

Look how easy piloting has become. Planes are more automated than ever, yet pilots are making the biggest inflation adjusted pay rates, ever.

Keep fighting for how we are unskilled and deserve nothing! Your Level 4 tower loves you!

What COVID did for piloting is the same as what it did for us. It reduced the number of pilots flying for the airlines. For us, it stopped us from training, having the same effect. The difference is we are government and giving us a raise takes a literal act of Congress, and we see how well the those who want to dismantle all government in the House are getting along. Dare I say an argument for privatization? Don't @ me.

Hopefully it never comes to this, but when the airlines inevitably go through another bankruptcy cycle and all of these great contracts are thrown out I think we'll be sitting pretty happy again, relatively. Again, it will take a literal act of Congress to change our pay. Should the US Government go bankrupt? Well, then we have bigger problems.

 

[32andBelow]

What COVID did for piloting is the same as what it did for us. It reduced the number of pilots flying for the airlines. For us, it stopped us from training, having the same effect. The difference is we are government and giving us a raise takes a literal act of Congress, and we see how well the those who want to dismantle all government in the House are getting along. Dare I say an argument for privatization? Don't @ me.

Hopefully it never comes to this, but when the airlines inevitably go through another bankruptcy cycle and all of these great contracts are thrown out I think we'll be sitting pretty happy again, relatively. Again, it will take a literal act of Congress to change our pay. Should the US Government go bankrupt? Well, then we have bigger problems.

It’s just gonna be some line item stuffed into some massive bill. They won’t like debate it