2024 NATCA President Election

[Phillyman2633]

Love how you keep hanging on to tech when staffing is the biggest issue facing our profession but you pretend it’s not NATCAs responsibility. Unlike you I expect more from natca didn’t know y’all want less, weird.

Is staffing important, yes. Should petitioning the employer to kindly please staff their facilities in their agency to their own target numbers be the number one priority of a labor organization? No, the number one priority should be making sure my pay keeps pace with inflation and then getting me 3-5% yearly raise (raise, as in beating inflation).

Do we need to spend millions of dollars in dues in Vegas and bi-yearly conventions to achieve that goal? Getting together with the boys in Vegas is going to fix staffing?

Cash is king. Fix the pay and then focus on staffing. You can advocate for an ASDE in AUS to your heart's content when the purchasing power of our salary is equal to or greater than it was during the Green Book.

 

[Gauff]

Love how you keep hanging on to tech when staffing is the biggest issue facing our profession but you pretend it’s not NATCAs responsibility. Unlike you I expect more from natca didn’t know y’all want less, weird.

The only way NATCA and controllers should be pressing the FAA for more staffing is by mandating sectors split and if there's not staffing then telling the sup to slow your rate and slow departures, and if they don't do that call and tell adjacent facilities you aren't taking anymore planes and do it yourself. Once the airlines start hurting and press the FAA we will magically get staffing much quicker.

But you're right we should all just be good FAA employees and work 6/10s, bend over backwards deal after deal to work the most traffic possible, and wind up in an early grave all for the FAA. While NATCA gives half assed briefings to Congress pressing them for more staffing but silent on pay.

Who doesn't love collaboration 🥳

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Is staffing important, yes. Should petitioning the employer to kindly please staff their facilities in their agency to their own target numbers be the number one priority of a labor organization? No, the number one priority should be making sure my pay keeps pace with inflation and then getting me 3-5% yearly raise (raise, as in beating inflation).

Do we need to spend millions of dollars in dues in Vegas and bi-yearly conventions to achieve that goal? Getting together with the boys in Vegas is going to fix staffing?

it should all be petitioned and improved. And no we don’t need to spend all that money to do it, we definitely need to trim the fat..have enough 114s out there.

 

[Phillyman2633]

it should all be petitioned and improved. And no we don’t need to spend all that money to do it, we definitely need to trim the fat..have enough 114s out there.

We can petition on a volunteer or duty-time basis...the union president can sit down and grandstand in front of Congress to get our point across. The point I'm making is that the millions we spend on, in my opinion, extraneous crap can be better spent paying professional full-time counsel to negotiate our next contract.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

We can petition on a volunteer or duty-time basis...the union president can sit down and grandstand in front of Congress to get our point across. The point I'm making is that the millions we spend on, in my opinion, extraneous crap can be better spent paying professional full-time counsel to negotiate our next contract.

Won’t disagree there.

The only way NATCA and controllers should be pressing the FAA for more staffing is by mandating sectors split and if there's not staffing then telling the sup to slow your rate and slow departures, and if they don't do that call and tell adjacent facilities you aren't taking anymore planes and do it yourself. Once the airlines start hurting and press the FAA we will magically get staffing much quicker.

But you're right we should all just be good FAA employees and work 6/10s, bend over backwards deal after deal to work the most traffic possible, and wind up in an early grave all for the FAA. While NATCA gives half assed briefings to Congress pressing them for more staffing but silent on pay.

Who doesn't love collaboration 🥳

I never once said the shit you are claiming I said in that second paragraph but go off king

 

[SquawkHijack]

The point I'm making is that the millions we spend on, in my opinion, extraneous crap can be better spent paying professional full-time counsel to negotiate our next contract.

This is why Mike Redmond got my EVP vote because he asked Rich something very much to this effect right after informing him that he has the entire AFL-CIO at his disposal and that third party consultation definitely could’ve been recruited.

 

[Gauff]

I never once said the shit you are claiming I said in that second paragraph but go off king

Yeah shouldn't have implied that you said that

But that's what has been happening with NATCA focusing on fixing staffing over pressing for pay. And as our pay starts to fall further and further behind controllers feel the need to work the overtime to keep their quality of life that they had a handful of years ago. If we fix pay and stop working OT and the FAA will have to fix staffing.

I also do think that the CRWG was a good thing overall for the future though, but I'm also pretty sure it's not permanent yet and only in a test period of some type.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Yeah shouldn't have implied that you said that

But that's what has been happening with NATCA focusing on fixing staffing over pressing for pay. And as our pay starts to fall further and further behind controllers feel the need to work the overtime to keep their quality of life that they had a handful of years ago. If we fix pay and stop working OT and the FAA will have to fix staffing.

I also do think that the CRWG was a good thing overall for the future though, but I'm also pretty sure it's not permanent yet and only in a test period of some type.

The transportation research board has until 5/10/2025 to study what model is the best.. CRWG is signed off by both the FAA, NATCA, and a third party MITRE so chances are really good it will be permanent. Regardless, max hiring is in law for 5 years and at least for the next year they are hiring to the CRWG numbers until they make a model permanent.

I don’t think y’all realize that Jesus himself will struggle to get the FAA to open a contract early, especially if the main goal is to increase pay. If we extend then yes all the criticism for the past few years is warranted. We need to keep applying the pressure to whoever wins this shit show of an election and ensure they open that contract.

Scared money don’t make no money.

 

[Gauff]

The transportation research board has until 5/10/2025 to study what model is the best.. CRWG is signed off by both the FAA, NATCA, and a third party MITRE so chances are really good it will be permanent. Regardless, max hiring is in law for 5 years and at least for the next year they are hiring to the CRWG numbers until they make a model permanent.

I don’t think y’all realize that Jesus himself will struggle to get the FAA to open a contract early, especially if the main goal is to increase pay. If we extend then yes all the criticism for the past few years is warranted. We need to keep applying the pressure to whoever wins this shit show of an election and ensure they open that contract.

Scared money don’t make no money.

I get that pay for the most part relies on opening the contract which, I agree, is unlikely to happen early, but that shouldn't stop the NATCA president from talking about pay come out of his mouth every other word when in front of Congress: 'why so many near misses?' 'Low pay attracts lowest quality controllers, higher pay would help alleviate this'; 'why is staffing low?' 'because pay is low' etc. In the meantime while we wait for the contract to open we can negotiate an MOU for Saturday pay and other differential pays that would be a start.

Another issue with pay is we rely on yearly government raises for our pay raise. I'm not sure if it would even be possible to restructure our contract more like other unions where you get a set percent raise per year as dictated in the contract (and that would be different than the 1.6 which is a longevity raise/step increase)

 

[32andBelow]

The transportation research board has until 5/10/2025 to study what model is the best.. CRWG is signed off by both the FAA, NATCA, and a third party MITRE so chances are really good it will be permanent. Regardless, max hiring is in law for 5 years and at least for the next year they are hiring to the CRWG numbers until they make a model permanent.

I don’t think y’all realize that Jesus himself will struggle to get the FAA to open a contract early, especially if the main goal is to increase pay. If we extend then yes all the criticism for the past few years is warranted. We need to keep applying the pressure to whoever wins this shit show of an election and ensure they open that contract.

Scared money don’t make no money.

We are rightfully critising for the last extension. Many on here were flaming it the hour it was announced

 

[Nothanks]

We are rightfully critising for the last extension. Many on here were flaming it the hour it was announced

“The length”. Not the actual extension.

I don’t know how many times people need to be reminded of their 5/10 schedules, low air traffic volume, low inflation, zero interest rates, massive layoffs, including pilots, we would have had a terrible chance at gaining shit at that time.

No one foresaw the nasty inflation coming. And no one was bitching about not training anyone at the time. We are paying for it now.

 

[Soul_Controller]

Once the airlines start hurting and press the FAA we will magically get staffing much quicker.

That's not really how that works. The airlines will ask for privatization and a seat at the table over anything else. The FAA will just do dumb shit like the the N90 relocation or mass decrees about fatigue and pretend to solve the problem.

 

[KP-ATC]

“The length”. Not the actual extension.

I don’t know how many times people need to be reminded of their 5/10 schedules, low air traffic volume, low inflation, zero interest rates, massive layoffs, including pilots, we would have had a terrible chance at gaining shit at that time.

No one foresaw the nasty inflation coming. And no one was bitching about not training anyone at the time. We are paying for it now.

Lots of us saw the massive inflation coming. Printing lots of new money - increasing the cash supply as dramatically as was done - is inflationary. That's freshman level economics class stuff.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

No one foresaw the nasty inflation coming. And no one was bitching about not training anyone at the time. We are paying for it now.

This is just 100% false. Read through this forum from 2021 when people were talking about inflation already. Anyone with half a brain could’ve seen inflation coming with the massive stimulus from 2020.

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[Nothanks]

Lots of us saw the massive inflation coming. Printing lots of new money - increasing the cash supply as dramatically as was done - is inflationary. That's freshman level economics class stuff.

Can’t open a CBA and send pay to arbitration and say “but the fed is printing, inflation is coming, pay me now!”

 

[KP-ATC]

Can’t open a CBA and send pay to arbitration and say “but the fed is printing, inflation is coming, pay me now!”

The contract was extended when the money printer was running at ludicrous speed. We knew when the contract was extended that we were going to be hit with massive inflation. That was the time to tie our pay to inflation.

 

[GulfCharlie]

“The length”. Not the actual extension.

I don’t know how many times people need to be reminded of their 5/10 schedules, low air traffic volume, low inflation, zero interest rates, massive layoffs, including pilots, we would have had a terrible chance at gaining shit at that time.

No one foresaw the nasty inflation coming. And no one was bitching about not training anyone at the time. We are paying for it now.

1. 5/10 was a operational necessity due to COVID to "stop the spread" not to mention RVP's and the Union as a whole threatening to not represent people who refused the vaccine due to medical or religious issues. The Agency's hand was forced, it was not something done willingly.
2. You cannot just layoff or RIF (Reduction in Force) Government employees without serious consideration and consequences, this is a drum beat by the Union as if we should kiss their feet. Thank God we were not privatized like NAV Canada, a close friend was laid off and she was 2 weeks from CPC.
3. Again, any first year economic student could have seen, to quote the meme, "make money printer go brrrrrr" was a terrible response and more for political gain than anything.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I get that pay for the most part relies on opening the contract which, I agree, is unlikely to happen early, but that shouldn't stop the NATCA president from talking about pay come out of his mouth every other word when in front of Congress: 'why so many near misses?' 'Low pay attracts lowest quality controllers

Because in general calling your constituents low quality is a bad idea.

Also I'm curious as I've seen this rhetoric over and over and over about higher pay attracting better applicants. Where are these better applicants coming from??? Until you do the job you have no idea who is a "better applicant". From looking at a resume you won't know if they can pass the Academy or if they will fail Basics. So higher pay may RETAIN better applicants but I don't see how it is going to make them magically appear which a shinning light above them so we know they're the best and brightest.

 

[ChuckNovember]

“The length”. Not the actual extension.

I don’t know how many times people need to be reminded of their 5/10 schedules, low air traffic volume, low inflation, zero interest rates, massive layoffs, including pilots, we would have had a terrible chance at gaining shit at that time.

No one foresaw the nasty inflation coming. And no one was bitching about not training anyone at the time. We are paying for it now.

Aren’t you glad we aren’t a NavCanada-esque corporation like the one Rinaldi was pushing for? They laid off all their trainees.

 

[Nothanks]

1. 5/10 was a operational necessity due to COVID to "stop the spread" not to mention RVP's and the Union as a whole threatening to not represent people who refused the vaccine due to medical or religious issues. The Agency's hand was forced, it was not something done willingly.
2. You cannot just layoff or RIF (Reduction in Force) Government employees without serious consideration and consequences, this is a drum beat by the Union as if we should kiss their feet. Thank God we were not privatized like NAV Canada, a close friend was laid off and she was 2 weeks from CPC.
3. Again, any first year economic student could have seen, to quote the meme, "make money printer go brrrrrr" was a terrible response and more for political gain than anything.

1. It was not an operational necessity. If they forced to stay on normal schedules we would have had the hazard pay argument though. The vaccine isn’t pertinent to the CBA we were talking about. I’m NOT vaccinated. Agent doesn’t pay me enough to take that shit

2. Agree RIF isn’t something that was likely to happen. It is pertinent information when you are going to the table and will be in front of an arbitrator for pay. Dont act like you’ve sat in front of an arbitration panel either. (You just asked what PAR was)

3. Sure anyone could have seen it, so everyone should have made a ton of money off the market. Piece of cake

Aren’t you glad we aren’t a NavCanada-esque corporation like the one Rinaldi was pushing for? They laid off all their trainees.

Yep very glad