4th quarter 2017

[breakaway2000]

...well that was easy! Thanks!
Do you know if this changes? Or when?

Once a month, typically in the first few days of the month. They discussed updating it weekly in the past NCEPT minutes, but for now it's monthly.

 

[SugarFoot1]

waiting for that update like its Christmas eve

 

[RogerDat]

Can someone explain the difference between Committed ATCS Outbound SWB (what does SWB mean??) in column T and Placement List Outbounds in column U....because I am looking at my facility and I know who and when and where everyone is going and it isn't adding up. Maybe it will clarify if someone could explain the difference between the two?!

 

[breakaway2000]

Can someone explain the difference between Committed ATCS Outbound SWB (what does SWB mean??) in column T and Placement List Outbounds in column U....because I am looking at my facility and I know who and when and where everyone is going and it isn't adding up. Maybe it will clarify if someone could explain the difference between the two?!

SWB = Staffing workbook
They're double counting on some facilities. The placement list outbounds update immediately after the NCEPT panel. You then move from a placement list outbound to a committed outbound when you have a confirmed start date. For most of us we show up as both a placement list outbound and committed outbound as well as a placement list inbound and committed inbound.

Basically the right hand is not talking to the left. It should resolve itself on the next update.

 

[RogerDat]

I see....so really it doesn't matter how the spreadsheet breaks these numbers down. By looking at the formula, it just subtracts both columns anyways....am I correct in my thinking??

 

[RogerDat]

SWB = Staffing workbook
They're double counting on some facilities. The placement list outbounds update immediately after the NCEPT panel. You then move from a placement list outbound to a committed outbound when you have a confirmed start date. For most of us we show up as both a placement list outbound and committed outbound as well as a placement list inbound and committed inbound.

Basically the right hand is not talking to the left. It should resolve itself on the next update.

by next update, are you referring to the next ncept panel or are there updates I am unaware of??

 

[breakaway2000]

I see....so really it doesn't matter how the spreadsheet breaks these numbers down. By looking at the formula, it just subtracts both columns anyways....am I correct in my thinking??

You're correct that both columns subtract equally from your projected %. It matters at the moment because one person is being double counted by being in both columns.

by next update, are you referring to the next ncept panel or are there updates I am unaware of??

The PPT gets updated near the end of each month.
The Facility Priority List gets updated at the beginning of each month.

 

[corn4ahead]

Do we have any idea if they are going to freeze the projected national average at 90%? It seems kind of ridiculous that you could be a category 1 release according to the MOU (>90%). Yet, you may not fulfill category 2 ( > national average).

Also, these new training success rates really BURNED my facility. We haven't had a washout since 2012 when we lost 3 in a row. Since then, we have certified 100% (~15-20 CPCs). Yet our success rate is sub 75%. Ridiculous.

 

[Move78]

Do we have any idea if they are going to freeze the projected national average at 90%? It seems kind of ridiculous that you could be a category 1 release according to the MOU (>90%). Yet, you may not fulfill category 2 ( > national average).

Also, these new training success rates really BURNED my facility. We haven't had a washout since 2012 when we lost 3 in a row. Since then, we have certified 100% (~15-20 CPCs). Yet our success rate is sub 75%. Ridiculous.

There's never been any confirmed talk of freezing it at 90.

 

[breakaway2000]

Do we have any idea if they are going to freeze the projected national average at 90%? It seems kind of ridiculous that you could be a category 1 release according to the MOU (>90%). Yet, you may not fulfill category 2 ( > national average).

Also, these new training success rates really BURNED my facility. We haven't had a washout since 2012 when we lost 3 in a row. Since then, we have certified 100% (~15-20 CPCs). Yet our success rate is sub 75%. Ridiculous.

I know how painful and deflating the new numbers are for you now, but they will result in two things happening. You'll receive more trainees initially and every 3 months when the training success rates move 3 months farther down the line, your rate will continue to increase, which should hopefully result in a larger outflow of CPCs.

 

[breakaway2000]

It's still hard to have any faith in this bullshit when, out of a class of 13, you'll be lucky to see 5 pass. Which further prolongs everything else that is supposed to follow.

No argument there, I'm going to try to post some interactive study materials soon. Hopefully the floodgates will open with prior experience guys once that freeze has ended.

 

[corn4ahead]

I know how painful and deflating the new numbers are for you now, but they will result in two things happening. You'll receive more trainees initially and every 3 months when the training success rates move 3 months farther down the line, your rate will continue to increase, which should hopefully result in a larger outflow of CPCs.

That's extremely idealistic. Every time we get close to being on a new hire list, it gets reorganized.

Back in the spring, we were on a few prior experience lists. We were not selected. Then we were next up to be on an Academy list. Once again, the list got reorganized and we still have not gotten one.

And I am sure we aren't the only facility going through this.

 

[ajmezz]

What facility are you at, if you don't mind saying?

 

[Mike Kilo]

It's still hard to have any faith in this bullshit when, out of a class of 13, you'll be lucky to see 5 pass. Which further prolongs everything else that is supposed to follow.

While this sucks, I am tired of trainees who have no business making it through the academy and wasting three years of government money and our time training with our tickets on the line. That's enough time to train 4-5 competent controllers. If you struggle at academy tower, this probably isn't the job for you. Small VFR towers are harder than the academy.

 

[breakaway2000]

That's extremely idealistic. Every time we get close to being on a new hire list, it gets reorganized and we fall. Last week we were up to 60-something. Now we are in the 120s.

Back in the spring, we were on a few prior experience lists. We were not selected. Then we were next up to be on an Academy list. Once again, the list got reorganized and we still have not gotten one.

And I am sure we aren't the only facility going through this.

So LOL.

MWH almost single handedly knocked you guys back 60 spots. Right now you're 1 inbound away from being eligible next panel right?

 

[corn4ahead]

MWH almost single handedly knocked you guys back 60 spots. Right now you're 1 inbound away from being eligible next panel right?

No I think we need 2.

 

[ajmezz]

Careful, Big Brother is watching..

 

[Stinger]

training with our tickets on the line

This argument in every context has never made sense to me. I want to see trainees do some crazy and dumb things every once in a while. Shows me that they learn and have the ability to think quickly while they scramble to work themselves out of a hole.
If that costs me a separation loss "on my ticket" occasionally, it's well worth it.

 

[Mike Kilo]

This argument in every context has never made sense to me. I want to see trainees do some crazy and dumb things every once in a while. Shows me that they learn and have the ability to think quickly while they scramble to work themselves out of a hole.
If that costs me a separation loss "on my ticket" occasionally, it's well worth it.

I can agree, with a trainee that is doing well in the program and getting high enough in hours to know and apply the standards. My problem is with idiots who have no business doing the job, and who everyone knows will not make it, but they keep getting extra hours which I am forced to train for.

 

[vectorwagon]

This argument in every context has never made sense to me. I want to see trainees do some crazy and dumb things every once in a while. Shows me that they learn and have the ability to think quickly while they scramble to work themselves out of a hole.
If that costs me a separation loss "on my ticket" occasionally, it's well worth it.

Especially since now with atsap and everything it's not like a trainee having a deal is going to literally cost you your job. I mean that's a downside of atsap-that a lot of people don't think deals are a big deal-but the "on your ticket" thing, isn't really a thing anymore.

But I do agree that Academy Tower is easier than most vfr towers. Most towers period.