Easiest facilities for every dollar/ hardest facilities for every dollar

CoffeeIV said:

From the recent NEB minutes:

"President Santa provided the NEB with an update regarding the status of ABACUS. Despite significance funding limitations, the group has developed a program that can count en route traffic. President Santa observed the initial program demonstration at Atlanta ARTCC which went exceptional well. The program will be tested at other en route facilities to validate its accuracy"

Maybe we will see it before most of us retire.

Oh and all you anti NATCA folks, back in October the FAA tried to stop development of ABACUS according to the NEB minutes:

"ABACUS (Rich Santa, President) President Santa provided an update on the status of ABACUS. The Agency initially wanted to suspend further software development due to budgetary concerns, but after discussions, the ABACUS team will work to find a path to continue development under an- financial constraints."

I am not anti-NATCA, I am anti NEB Leadership.

boots said:

What about the centers that are getting murdered for less than 12 pay because our union fucking sucks.

Its still center, and it's really like one of the facilities

DankVectorz said:

At CLT and PHL you either work all the radar positions or tower and departure

Close. All tower and arrivals AD/DD

fivebyfive said:

Genuine question for those who know.
How many sectors in a level 12 Z work level 12 traffic? Percentage-wise.

I'd say it's set up like this

Areas (mine uses letters but whatever)

1 easiest area (harassment, 8th review board people)
2 Slightly busier, but still kinda easy
3 low end of average 12 traffic but complex
4 average 12 traffic with a few easy days
Level 12 traffic
5 Average 12 traffic with a few busy days
6 Complex steady 12 traffic
7 Complex 12 traffic with extra busy days
8 Area with high count and complexity

This is basically it from who I've talked to

I also want to chime in about the level 12 pay thing-if you look at oak, lax, long Island, atlanta, DC there's a lot of 12 guys checking out with over an hour commute on top of 6 day work weeks, a bunch of 10 hr days.

Try and give it a shot at a center anyway you can-but its not some golden ticket. We need raises everywhere.

Record inflation,
Record traffic counts on flightradar24
Record low staffing
No movement

I wish we could all like come together under a banner to fight for our stuff. Anyone have any ideas

DankVectorz said:

That’s Catskill (sfc-5000 there) and it’s a position in Liberty area. ZBW feeds EWR Mugzy (satellite arrivals) over HUO at 6,000

You wouldn’t consider LAX traffic to be level 12? Genuinely curious, I’m not familiar with SCT’s ops at all.

You need three more parallels so when you work one final and have two other controllers working single finals next to you with monitors….then you are pushing 12 traffic.

Phillytroll69 said:

I'd say it's set up like this

Areas (mine uses letters but whatever)

1 easiest area (harassment, 8th review board people)
2 Slightly busier, but still kinda easy
3 low end of average 12 traffic but complex
4 average 12 traffic with a few easy days
Level 12 traffic
5 Average 12 traffic with a few busy days
6 Complex steady 12 traffic
7 Complex 12 traffic with extra busy days
8 Area with high count and complexity

This is basically it from who I've talked to

I also want to chime in about the level 12 pay thing-if you look at oak, lax, long Island, atlanta, DC there's a lot of 12 guys checking out with over an hour commute on top of 6 day work weeks, a bunch of 10 hr days.

Try and give it a shot at a center anyway you can-but its not some golden ticket. We need raises everywhere.

Record inflation,
Record traffic counts on flightradar24
Record low staffing
No movement

I wish we could all like come together under a banner to fight for our stuff. Anyone have any ideas

AB19

Phillytroll69 said:

AB19

Fuck it I'll do it live /s

Phillytroll69 said:

I'd say it's set up like this

Areas (mine uses letters but whatever)

1 easiest area (harassment, 8th review board people)
2 Slightly busier, but still kinda easy
3 low end of average 12 traffic but complex
4 average 12 traffic with a few easy days
Level 12 traffic
5 Average 12 traffic with a few busy days
6 Complex steady 12 traffic
7 Complex 12 traffic with extra busy days
8 Area with high count and complexity

This is basically it from who I've talked to

I also want to chime in about the level 12 pay thing-if you look at oak, lax, long Island, atlanta, DC there's a lot of 12 guys checking out with over an hour commute on top of 6 day work weeks, a bunch of 10 hr days.

Try and give it a shot at a center anyway you can-but its not some golden ticket. We need raises everywhere.

Record inflation,
Record traffic counts on flightradar24
Record low staffing
No movement

I wish we could all like come together under a banner to fight for our stuff. Anyone have any ideas

RAISE WHEN

mikefsfr said:

Close. All tower and arrivals AD/DD

Plus you will have EWR which will be the 2nd hardest satellite airport in the NAS behind MDW.

boots said:

What about the centers that are getting murdered for less than 12 pay because our union fucking sucks.

Center levels at all are scams anyway. They should all be the same. The busier facilities are subdivided into more areas/sectors and have more bodies.

Dolan said:

NCT, SCT, PCT. Nct and pct are the biggest scams as neither has a single sector that actually works 12 traffic.

Shots fired, I work at one of those so I guess I can stay put. What would you consider a suitable and deserving 12?

hpwjuicebox said:

Center levels at all are scams anyway. They should all be the same. The busier facilities are subdivided into more areas/sectors and have more bodies.

In theory, but not always how it works. The busier and more complex areas in centers generally have the lowest staffing because morale is low, people are assholes because of the work they're forced to put up with, and no trainees want to certify so they wash on purpose or hardship immediately after checkout.

The easier areas at centers are fat because they're a joke, every trainee checks out and some still get placed there despite them being fat because they know people in management.

COWTOWN said:

Shots fired, I work at one of those so I guess I can stay put. What would you consider a suitable and deserving 12?

Command Center obviously.

I heard tik tok girl has a great system

abc1234 said:

In theory, but not always how it works. The busier and more complex areas in centers generally have the lowest staffing because morale is low, people are assholes because of the work they're forced to put up with, and no trainees want to certify so they wash on purpose or hardship immediately after checkout.

The easier areas at centers are fat because they're a joke, every trainee checks out and some still get placed there despite them being fat because they know people in management.

Yeah but the harder areas have trainee backlogs. Why put a trainee in an area where it'll take 12 months to get 2 d-sides when the easy area can have them in r-side class within the same time frame?

COWTOWN said:

Shots fired, I work at one of those so I guess I can stay put. What would you consider a suitable and deserving 12?

The non supertracon 12's are all legit 12 facilities. D10, D01, N90, A80, C90 etc.

DankVectorz said:

You wouldn’t consider LAX traffic to be level 12? Genuinely curious, I’m not familiar with SCT’s ops at all.

I said NCT and PCT don't have any level 12 traffic sectors. SCT does due to LAX arrivals. But again, that's just one area in the building. My info's pretty old things may be different with today's traffic levels.

I do know that NCT stands alone as an extremely easy 12 (to my benefit) and have less info about SCT/PCT. Again, not easy in the grand scope of ATC but extremely easy compared to the actual 12's. There's nothing in our building even remotely comparable to the arrival pushes seen at A80/C90

Dolan said:

SCT does due to LAX arrivals

You misspelled “San Diego area traffic”.

Dolan said:

The non supertracon 12's are all legit 12 facilities. D10, D01, N90, A80, C90 etc.

I said NCT and PCT don't have any level 12 traffic sectors. SCT does due to LAX arrivals. But again, that's just one area in the building. My info's pretty old things may be different with today's traffic levels.

I do know that NCT stands alone as an extremely easy 12 (to my benefit) and have less info about SCT/PCT. Again, not easy in the grand scope of ATC but extremely easy compared to the actual 12's. There's nothing in our building even remotely comparable to the arrival pushes seen at A80/C90

I would venture to guess that A80/C90 have non-ATL/ORD traffic that isn’t even remotely comparable to what NCT or SCT work. A80/C90 also use somewhere around 10+ controllers to work those busy banks with trips ops so the workload is spread out so much. Personally, all those guys earn their paychecks.

Dolan said:

The non supertracon 12's are all legit 12 facilities. D10, D01, N90, A80, C90 etc.

I said NCT and PCT don't have any level 12 traffic sectors. SCT does due to LAX arrivals. But again, that's just one area in the building. My info's pretty old things may be different with today's traffic levels.

I do know that NCT stands alone as an extremely easy 12 (to my benefit) and have less info about SCT/PCT. Again, not easy in the grand scope of ATC but extremely easy compared to the actual 12's. There's nothing in our building even remotely comparable to the arrival pushes seen at A80/C90

I suppose since SCT works a standalone 10 tracon more traffic than NCT, and a standalone 12 tracon more traffic than PCT I guess we should let them keep their 12.