General Questions

fivebyfive

Member
Messages
35
Any idea of what the Manager's are generally looking for when ranking candidates and does that ranking hold firm once it reaches the NCEPT folks and it's their time to actually make selections?

2 level 12 TRACON tickets a level 8 up/down in my FAA career and was skipped at SCT for 6 candidates, 4 of which were from a level 10 and below. I saw a level 6 and 7 in there, too! At the time my facility was a Cat 1 or 2 and I think we were releasing 5 or more. Congrats to everyone who got selected, I Don't mean any hate on you guys/gals. Just trying to make sense, if any, of all this. 😂
As fighting Irish said, oftentimes, NATCA will collaborate with MGMT on the ranking list. It's just as, if not more, important to be reaching out to the FACREP. I would definitely highlight all the additional duties you may do at your facility. If you're a Subject matter expert on UAS or part of the Local Safety Council or Traffic Count validation committee, sell yourself.
 

FightingIrish2012

Trusted Contributor
Messages
90
Doesn’t the ATM have final say though?
In some facilities yeah, I am sure the ATM owns it and don’t give it up. But in most facilities it’s at least a 50-50 split with NATCA, and in more facilities then the ATM dominating it the ATM will give it up completely to NATCA, either because they are scared of the Rep or are just too lazy to deal with it or have no preference who comes in as long as they get a body.
 

Electricfence

Trusted Contributor
Messages
43
Yes many facilities let natca decide or at a minimum collaborate with atm. However to add to what fivebyfive said sell yourself. But you should sell yourself to both sides Because the managers ranking list logistically comes from the manager, natca is not the one to actually make the submission. Natca only gets the list because the manager decides to share it. Until you know for sure how that facility does it, it would be wise to try both avenues. So don’t ignore the manager when visiting or kissing butt. Because if natca lists you one way but you made a strong connection with the atm, they may choose to rank you higher just because of that.
 

Jeffrey

Member
FAA
Messages
12
Facility
D01 Denver Tracon
Sorry for the late reply, had some annual days. Thanks for all the responses. I was told I would be at the top of the list and I have visited the facility previously a few times prior to the latest NCEPT. Well none of that has seemed to help me get to my end goal facility. I've had transfer requests in for more than a few years now... Nada. I'm wondering if they're releasing people from facilities that are most over staffed first? I don't know, I'm out of answers about NCEPT.
 

Maintainvfr

Forum Sage
Messages
257
Sorry for the late reply, had some annual days. Thanks for all the responses. I was told I would be at the top of the list and I have visited the facility previously a few times prior to the latest NCEPT. Well none of that has seemed to help me get to my end goal facility. I've had transfer requests in for more than a few years now... Nada. I'm wondering if they're releasing people from facilities that are most over staffed first? I don't know, I'm out of answers about NCEPT.
If you're at the top of their list, and your facility can release, the only reason you're not getting picked up is because people at your facility are going to places with a higher draft pick.

Let's say your facility can let two go and the facility you want to get to is #50 on the ranking list. Your coworkers Jamocha Joe bids the #20 facility and Tight Pants Kevin bids the #40 facility. If they get picked up, it doesn't matter where the facility you want ranked you because your facility doesn't have any losses left to give.

I've spoken to a lot people that don't fully understand the process. One common misconception is they think if you're ranked #1 at your potential facility and Jamocha Joe is ranked #10 at his, you would get picked up first. In reality it all depends on where you're bidding.

If Joe's facility gets to pick up 6 people they get to make aaaaall six of those picks before yours gets any and if four people on the list got either picked up earlier or someone else from their respective facilities did, then #10 Joe is getting snagged.

Your last sentence makes it seem like you don't fully understand the importance of the facility rankings
 

hitbit

Lurker
Messages
12
If a developmental put in paperwork before the deadline but got fully certified very shortly after, would they be able to get CPC treatment at the panel?

Are CPC-ITs treated the same as CPCs by the NCEPT panel? How about by managers/facreps?
 

GulfBravoPapa

Forum Sage
Messages
624
If a developmental put in paperwork before the deadline but got fully certified very shortly after, would they be able to get CPC treatment at the panel?

Are CPC-ITs treated the same as CPCs by the NCEPT panel? How about by managers/facreps?
People in training status are looked at last (well maybe before swaps). I'd imagine whatever the cutoff date for the panel is what your status would be.
 

Foogy

Forum Sage
Messages
327
If a developmental put in paperwork before the deadline but got fully certified very shortly after, would they be able to get CPC treatment at the panel?

Are CPC-ITs treated the same as CPCs by the NCEPT panel? How about by managers/facreps?
Also I'm unsure of the exact procedures but you should be able to notify the NCEPT panel and be looked at as a CPC.
 

Jeffrey

Member
FAA
Messages
12
Facility
D01 Denver Tracon
If you're at the top of their list, and your facility can release, the only reason you're not getting picked up is because people at your facility are going to places with a higher draft pick.

Let's say your facility can let two go and the facility you want to get to is #50 on the ranking list. Your coworkers Jamocha Joe bids the #20 facility and Tight Pants Kevin bids the #40 facility. If they get picked up, it doesn't matter where the facility you want ranked you because your facility doesn't have any losses left to give.

I've spoken to a lot people that don't fully understand the process. One common misconception is they think if you're ranked #1 at your potential facility and Jamocha Joe is ranked #10 at his, you would get picked up first. In reality it all depends on where you're bidding.

If Joe's facility gets to pick up 6 people they get to make aaaaall six of those picks before yours gets any and if four people on the list got either picked up earlier or someone else from their respective facilities did, then #10 Joe is getting snagged.

Your last sentence makes it seem like you don't fully understand the importance of the facility rankings
Thanks for the info. I honestly didnt have a complete grasp on the rankings and selection equation. Your response definitely cleared up some of it so I appreciate that. 👍
 

JulietXray

Lurker
Messages
2
I am currently at a facility with staffing around 84%, but have a case to hardship out. The facility and area I am trying to go to is a level 12 (at a level 12 already). I’m a CPC-IT within a few months of certifying. I was wondering how much they weigh staffing levels in this situation. The facility I would ideally go to is above the national average. Any thoughts on this?
 

Maintainvfr

Forum Sage
Messages
257
I am currently at a facility with staffing around 84%, but have a case to hardship out. The facility and area I am trying to go to is a level 12 (at a level 12 already). I’m a CPC-IT within a few months of certifying. I was wondering how much they weigh staffing levels in this situation. The facility I would ideally go to is above the national average. Any thoughts on this?
Hardships aren't subject to staffing
 

Maintainvfr

Forum Sage
Messages
257
Are you sure? I heard they were. I was told this at my old facility when the staffing MOU came out.
Not in the same way as anything else, no.

"Transfers under this
Article shall not be constrained by any release policies; however, release
under this Article shall not negatively impact employees who have already
received release dates. Transfers under this Article shall not be eligible to
receive any permanent change of station benefits. If the Agency
determines that the request cannot be accommodated due to staffing, the
request will remain active for fifteen (15) months and reviewed every six
(6) months by the Parties at the Service Area/AFSIAG level. After each
six (6) month review, a notice will be sent to the employee regarding the
disposition of the request."

It does say at the end if it can't be accommodated due to staffing etc but that would be only in a situation where it's extremely dire, hardships out of n90 have even been approved. It's like the notes in the leave sections about a leave exigency. Yes theoretically the agency can declare at your facility you aren't allowed to take leave or hardship, but they won't because it would be publicly admitting a huge failure.

The important part is that you aren't subject to any release policies. Also the decision is made above your ATMs level so even if their a bonehead it doesn't really matter.
 

NavyTrev

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
39
Facility
PCT Potomac Tracon
Can’t find this in the Q&A, guy from my current facility had it done even after his prior ATM and rep said no.
If someone picked up on a prior ERR panel has a signed FOL release date, then months later changes his mind to stay. Does his release date then become available to the person behind him?
I’m thinking no, but in a perfect world...
 
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MJ

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,050
Can’t find this in the Q&A, guy from my current facility had it done even after his prior ATM and rep said no.
If someone picked up on a prior ERR panel has a signed FOL release date, then months later changes his mind to stay. Does his release date then become available to the person behind him?
I’m thinking no, but in a perfect world...
The release date, no. If it changes the category and someone is waiting to be released then they have to be moved up if they want.
ATM could offer to release next in line, but they don't have to as long as it falls in their category window.
 

Move78

Forum Sage
Messages
744
Can’t find this in the Q&A, guy from my current facility had it done even after his prior ATM and rep said no.
If someone picked up on a prior ERR panel has a signed FOL release date, then months later changes his mind to stay. Does his release date then become available to the person behind him?
I’m thinking no, but in a perfect world...
Stanley burn another offer letter?
 

NavyTrev

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
39
Facility
PCT Potomac Tracon
Alright last one I promise! Does anyone know how the selection date is determined for people picked up on TMU and FLM bids? Trying to figure out why someone who received their TOL 3.5 months after someone from a ERR panel but has an earlier release date with no deviation.
 
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