They are going to see masses retire at 25 years any age or 20 years and age 50 more then they have ever before starting in about 4-5 years. Plus add in no MRA retirements. They won’t be ready for that retirement wave because they won’t have the last one fixed yet. All because of these transfer practices and morale issues.
Leaving NATCA outside January
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Mike Kilo
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Man if I had a nickel for every 2-3 year release date complaints. Even one year complaints before NCEPT lol. I’ve got about 4 years pre NCEPT. Lots of complaining about all things. Why don’t they pull a list? I erred but they selected a bunch from USA jobs and only got one err what the heck? Etc etc.
As posted above the old system they also did not have to justify any selections and there were many low levels straight to high and a loooooot of nepotism complaints. The only real change is the staffing number criteria that allows gains or losses. That and people can no longer hold multiple offer letters and block a facility from getting a body. Knew a few who took forever to decide between two facilities blocking them making a back up selection.
NCEPT is just a lot more transparent and easy to view. Much like social media and people complaining, they have just made it easier. Before you had zero clue when CYZ would be able to pull an err list or have a listing on USA jobs. It was just limbo with constant contact with the atm and FacRep trying to see when it might happen. NCEPT is a decent process as far as the meeting regularly(ish) and the way they live and select people. But the staffing criteria for gains and losses needs a lot of help. Maybe try hiring from the top down and backfill as people are selected. Would be a much longer process though.
Sounds good in theory. If they would have stuck to initial MOU and not changing it so much to force the agency to get their act together hiring and make it a faster process may have worked better. But collaborating to scratch agencies back because they aren’t keeping up I think was a bad move.
Mike Kilo
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Definitely. I like the regular meetings and actually seeing what’s going on with priority list etc and the 1 year release dates max. I 100% think there should be a 3 level cap for the first NCEPT selection and then follow up with everyone else after those placements. Would keep middle facility movement going while not straight denying low levels a high level placement.
AB19
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A level cap makes no sense when you would just get shafted for not knowing that enroute was an option and now you can’t go to an eleven or twelve because you can only get a 7 from the terminal side
Mike Kilo
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A good point. We’ll put them in with the second round? I don’t have all the answers but letting a level 4 go to DEN is retarded. And they have done it before when it wasn’t a grievance.
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That’s the biggest failure of NCEPT, to me. Before it, people could either apply to somewhere less desirable and have a likelier chance of getting picked up, or shoot big and hope for the best, but either way, there was a way to get picked somewhere and have movement, even if it was after a 2-3 year release date. You had a light at the end of the tunnel. Now, there’s so many criteria in place to be even eligible to be selected on a panel. You can’t even get selected to go to a lower level to be in a geographical region you want to be in, even if it means having to deal with a 3 year release date. At least there was a light at the end of the tunnel there. Level 8-9 facilities are becoming black holes with their inability to receive Academy hires due to the send-them-to-level-7s-or-below cap, or ERRs due to the ever-changing NCEPT criteria, and so people who just want out to a lower level close to home or in a new region are screwed and are just stuck. It’s stupid.
I have a hard time faulting people that get stuck at 4-7's initially. Asking someone to train somewhere, get stuck for however long then transfer and do it all over again then transfer again to finally get to their 12 is lame.
There are a ton of problems with NCEPT, but I really don't have the answer to them and I bet no one here can come up with a perfect system because it's all fucked. I believe local hiring would do better. I'm sure there are people in bumfuck town with a level 5 tower that want a nice job and be there near family. Maybe they eventually move but whatever. The issue is all the people already stuck at facilities they never want to be at would now be fighting against new hiring bids too.
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AB19
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I don’t have the answer because I think anyone that makes it threw the academy can make it at a higher level place, I do think it’s dumb to let military people come in and take places that people already in the agency want to go to. It would be nice if the agency said after x years you get to go somewhere with less than 100% staffing
Mike Kilo
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I agree and it’s been proven at every high level out there at one time received new hires and made it happen. But I think where I disagree with a lot of people is with time in service/grade. I believe people who have been in longer and/or at mid level facilities should get a shot at the higher ones before the low level new hires. As mentioned people in the mid level facilities are almost stuck in a black hole because they are skipped over due to staffing. Obviously I don’t think it should be the only qualifier. Good at the job, good co worker etc etc. Some people are just pieces of shit who should be sand bagged lol. No clear answers that I can see unfortunately.
32andBelow
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Then they should start placing new hires up to level 9 prolly. Maybe they can offer based on academy grade as an alternate
Robert_Boucher
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The academy doesn't equip a tower student to work at a level 9 tower. Unless they changed things the airport was based off level 6 traffic.
I do agree that prior experience getting to go to locations that have ERRs is trash, but they are also letting people that sit out for a year apply directly to facilities. They would have to change a bunch to make it fair for current members and I don't think they (FAA or Natca) care to look into it.
I do agree that prior experience getting to go to locations that have ERRs is trash, but they are also letting people that sit out for a year apply directly to facilities. They would have to change a bunch to make it fair for current members and I don't think they (FAA or Natca) care to look into it.
Mike Kilo
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I don’t think there is an answer that will make everyone happy. No matter what changed there would be a group of people who get the shaft or at least end up a little worse than now.
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The double ended dildo.
32andBelow
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The academy didn’t equip me to work at a center at all. Don’t these level towers have their own sims?
wand_waver
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Some do, some don’t. Some go to the closest major for sims. Some don’t require sims at all
Robert_Boucher
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I dont know. But you do remember the FAA used to send OTS to high level tracons, and mid level towers and up downs and they stopped because the washout rates.
32andBelow
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Well now you got a black hole where no one wants to go there cus there’s no point unless it happens to be the only facility where you want to live. I’m not saying to raise it all the way back to level 12. But 9 seems reasonable
FightingIrish2012
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You are right in there they stopped it because of the washout rates. But if you do a lot of digging, people will see that washout rates have not changed significantly since the new process.
