NATCA

Carole_Fn_Baskin

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In 2020 NATCA secured
12 weeks of paid parental leave
Paid excused absence
2.9% Raise
Annual 1.6% Raise
No RIF despite a massive reduction in traffic.

I’m genuinely curious why there are so many complaints about the union in a year that controllers have received so many benefits?
 

Carole_Fn_Baskin

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New hires who moved potentially across the country with their family making AG pay living paycheck to paycheck with no chance of advancing their career anytime soon, who would be upset?
NATCA can’t solve someone’s sense of entitlement. The federal government lost massive revenue this year and any private business that would mirror that would have laid off new hires in their probationary period. It’s all perspective, you can be happy you were spared from being laid off while collecting free leave or you can bitch about training. When there wasn’t a pandemic I still sat upstairs for a year waiting for a class and went the first month without pay from a shutdown after moving across the country.
 

SharkBait

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329
NATCA can’t solve someone’s sense of entitlement.
This is where you are wrong, everyone pays dues if they are a bargaining member, and every bargaining member deserves to be represented. This is union 101, some members are being represented while others are left off the bargaining table completely. If they had taken real steps to preserve the workplace as a COVID free environment than maybe some of these "brothers and sisters" wouldnt feel so left out, instead we got half ass solutions and a "we will deal with you later" attitude. I come from a union family, IBEW, sheet metal workers, etc, im super pro union, they are just going about it the wrong way.
 

Carole_Fn_Baskin

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This is where you are wrong, everyone pays dues if they are a bargaining member, and every bargaining member deserves to be represented. This is union 101, some members are being represented while others are left off the bargaining table completely. If they had taken real steps to preserve the workplace as a COVID free environment than maybe some of these "brothers and sisters" wouldnt feel so left out, instead we got half ass solutions and a "we will deal with you later" attitude. I come from a union family, IBEW, sheet metal workers, etc, im super pro union, they are just going about it the wrong way.
In what ways were trainees not represented? CPC’s got 5/5 or 5/10 to reduce exposure and trainees were give free leave to reduce exposure from COVID-19. From my perspective a private business would have laid off trainees and not incurred the expense. The solution was a mitigation to try and reduce exposure to a virus and in that way it was fair to all members.

You are not guaranteed to certify in the FAA and nothing is promised when you are in a probationary period. We aren’t even promised expedited training in normal circumstances. This is where I believe that people have a sense of entitlement.
 

SharkBait

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329
In what ways were trainees not represented? CPC’s got 5/5 or 5/10 to reduce exposure and trainees were give free leave to reduce exposure from COVID-19. From my perspective a private business would have laid off trainees and not incurred the expense. The solution was a mitigation to try and reduce exposure to a virus and in that way it was fair to all members.
There has been no proof that someone working FD/CD but not training ground, regardless of them being at a facility and working right next to that controller reduces risk. If masks work, why cant they train with masks on? If face shields work, why cant they wear those? If high risk controllers are already on EA, why does it matter if we have an extra body or two at the facility? No RIF wasnt NATCA, its the governments own ineptitude at managing the hiring of ATC's, if they did that they would lose a large portion of their controllers in a time that we are already hurting for manning.

What im saying is the lack of common sense and transparency when it comes to NATCA not bargaining on behalf of ALL of its members is what is upsetting, its clear that NATCA only cares about the CPC's paying most of their paychecks and not all members. All bargaining employees need a seat at the table.
 

JNev

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When someone retires at your facility is it expected you give them money? I feel like this year especially, NATCA local should be doing everything they find fitting and not asking controllers to give money. It just seems weird in principal to ask for money for the retiring people but maybe I just don’t know the norm
 

Carole_Fn_Baskin

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There has been no proof that someone working FD/CD but not training ground, regardless of them being at a facility and working right next to that controller reduces risk. If masks work, why cant they train with masks on? If face shields work, why cant they wear those? If high risk controllers are already on EA, why does it matter if we have an extra body or two at the facility? No RIF wasnt NATCA, its the governments own ineptitude at managing the hiring of ATC's, if they did that they would lose a large portion of their controllers in a time that we are already hurting for manning.

What im saying is the lack of common sense and transparency when it comes to NATCA not bargaining on behalf of ALL of its members is what is upsetting, its clear that NATCA only cares about the CPC's paying most of their paychecks and not all members. All bargaining employees need a seat at the table.
NATCA decided to reduce exposure by getting free leave for employees. If masks were perfect then there would be no EA for trainees or CPCs. There isn’t a bias towards either. Trainees just want to train so they can progress and get raises. NATCA didn’t discriminate against that, they just took a different route.
 

ClearanceClarence

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You are not guaranteed to certify in the FAA and nothing is promised when you are in a probationary period. We aren’t even promised expedited training in normal circumstances. This is where I believe that people have a sense of entitlement.
LOL, let’s see how you would have felt if your career was fucked over by a year long training delay and you lost out on hundreds of thousands of dollars in career earnings. Probably wouldn’t call it “entitlement” then.
 

Carole_Fn_Baskin

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When someone retires at your facility is it expected you give them money? I feel like this year especially, NATCA local should be doing everything they find fitting and not asking controllers to give money. It just seems weird in principal to ask for money for the retiring people but maybe I just don’t know the norm
Like a retirement gift? I can’t speak to the local unions. I am referring to national, but I think a retirement gifts are a nice way of saying bye to a coworker.

LOL, let’s see how you would have felt if your career was fucked over by a year long training delay and you lost out on hundreds of thousands of dollars in career earnings. Probably wouldn’t call it “entitlement” then.
Lol I am going on year 3 of training delays from facility delays, shutdowns, and a pandemic.
 

SharkBait

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329
Trainees just want to train so they can progress and get raises. NATCA didn’t discriminate against that, they just took a different route.
Yes, thats what im saying. If NATCA isnt taking that into account, they aren't representing the people they are supposed too. Hence why people are upset. Its really not that complicated, its like when the government funds pakistan gender studies and not more relief for the american people
Lol I am going on year 3 of training delays from facility delays, shutdowns, and a pandemic.
Then you should be upset as well at the union, just because they have done some things right doesnt mean the are immune from criticism.
 

Carole_Fn_Baskin

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Yes, thats what im saying. If NATCA isnt taking that into account, they aren't representing the people they are supposed too. Hence why people are upset. Its really not that complicated, its like when the government funds pakistan gender studies and not more relief for the american people

Then you should be upset as well at the union, just because they have done some things right doesnt mean the are immune from criticism.
I’m not going to pretend that the grass is greener when we got 8 months of free leave and weren’t terminated. So I can sit around and bitch about raises. Life is all about perspective. You can be happy that you aren’t a small business getting fucked by a pandemic or you can be pissed that you got an 8 month vacation and didn’t get to train. I’m not going to direct my criticisms at the only organization that possibly saved me from unemployment regardless of how great of a controller I think I’ll be.

We’re sucking on the government tit and pissed that the milks not chocolate.
 

SharkBait

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I’m not going to pretend that the grass is greener when we got 8 months of free leave and weren’t terminated. So I can sit around and bitch about raises. Life is all about perspective. You can be happy that you aren’t a small business getting fucked by a pandemic or you can be pissed that you got an 8 month vacation and didn’t get to train. I’m not going to direct my criticisms at the only organization that possibly saved me from unemployment regardless of how great of a controller I think I’ll be.
You asked "I’m genuinely curious why there are so many complaints about the union in a year that controllers have received so many benefits?" We want the union to do better, plain and simple. Its like saying "well he only crashed a single plain, he could have put two together, you should be happy". If you are so disassociated with where AG employees are coming from, maybe you should realize that you are not seeing it from their perspective, but your own.

"be happy that you aren’t a small business getting fucked by a pandemic" , that shouldn't be happening as well.
 

JNev

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Like a retirement gift? I can’t speak to the local unions. I am referring to national, but I think a retirement gifts are a nice way of saying bye to a coworker.
It just said there’s a card and you can put money in it... I’m like uhhh what
 

Carole_Fn_Baskin

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FAA
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389
Facility
ZDV Denver Center
You asked "I’m genuinely curious why there are so many complaints about the union in a year that controllers have received so many benefits?" We want the union to do better, plain and simple. Its like saying "well he only crashed a single plain, he could have put two together, you should be happy". If you are so disassociated with where AG employees are coming from, maybe you should realize that you are not seeing it from their perspective, but your own.

"be happy that you aren’t a small business getting fucked by a pandemic" , that shouldn't be happening as well.
So would your suggestion have been to retain full staffing with reduced traffic and wear masks so we can train? I just don’t see a way NATCA could sell EA and training as usual. It’s either we care about exposure or we think masks are the key to everything.
 

TimShady

Active Member
Messages
52
LOL, let’s see how you would have felt if your career was fucked over by a year long training delay and you lost out on hundreds of thousands of dollars in career earnings. Probably wouldn’t call it “entitlement” then.
Are you seriously adding up a career’s worth of raises that you think you deserve, but NATCA prevented, and saying you’re not entitled? If you worked for NavCanada instead of the FAA you’d literally be on unemployment trying to figure out your next job. NATCA’s not out to get you. This year has been hard for everyone, some more than others. Maybe try looking at the bright side once in a while.
 
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