New time off between shifts mandate. Big change

[bravounite33]

The same person that works mids on the other crews would come in early on their 1st and 2nd day back to work those extra 2 hours and it’s the coverage for that person leaving early. It is plug and play

Anyone can neg. Straights shifts whenever they like. Lots of facilities have them already

Assume that they use 0600-1200 as the day shift prior to the midnight. They then come back in at 0000 to work 0000-0800 mid. That means someone (or more than one most likely) have to work 1600-0000 (if not later for the overlap). So where is your overlap you say to cover for that 6 hr shift? First day back, I would assume they would be working that late shift but working a 10 hr day still means 1400-0000. Still screwed between 1200-1400...

Again, not an issue at a larger facility where this can be solved as you have more people to be spread out. But at small facilities that have mids, it's almost impossible.

 

[32andBelow]

Assume that they use 0600-1200 as the day shift prior to the midnight. They then come back in at 0000 to work 0000-0800 mid. That means someone (or more than one most likely) have to work 1600-0000 (if not later for the overlap). So where is your overlap? First day back, I would assume they would be working that late shift but working a 10 hr day still means 1400-0000. Still screwed between 1200-1400...

Again, not an issue at a larger facility where this can be solved as you have more people to be spread out. But at small facilities that have mids, it's almost impossible.

You just don’t do any of that janky crap and someone works a week of mids. We are primed to push for 4 10s rn imo

 

[bravounite33]

You just don’t do any of that janky crap and someone works a week of mids. We are primed to push for 4 10s rn imo

Agreed. Straight shifts or rotating weeks of straight shifts in my opinion are the best options by far. I'm not against 4 10s but a lot needs to change behind the scenes to make it a viable option for the normal schedule and not just a schedule people can "volunteer" to work instead of the 5 8s.

 

[32andBelow]

Agreed. Straight shifts or rotating weeks of straight shifts in my opinion are the best options by far. I'm not against 4 10s but a lot needs to change behind the scenes to make it a viable option for the normal schedule and not just a schedule people can "volunteer" to work instead of the 5 8s.

I’d take straight swings and gladly trade with someone who wants days when it’s my turn. I think straight shifts will wind up with a lot of people working what they want more than we do now.

 

[the inquirer]

Standard 2 swings, 3 days or 3 swings, 2 days every week. Every seven weeks you get a week of straight mids. Least impact on operational hours and don’t have to do the 6 hour shift or the 1600 every day and the mid doesn’t have to start at 0000.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Can anyone confirm if it is true we aren't allowed to work ten hour mids? I've heard it said here and there but not sure.

 

[the inquirer]

Can anyone confirm if it is true we aren't allowed to work ten hour mids? I've heard it said here and there but not sure.

Cba says no more than 9 hour mid. But that can be superseded with an mou.

 

[alaskanmike]

The issue we have is the entitlement within the controller ranks and the fact we are bound by the contract for the agency to allow us to bid all our accrued leave each year. This is something that will need to change to allow us to bid the straight shifts.

We can't be expected to get to straight shifts and be able to take all the leave accrued. We need to be willing to give up the leave accrued and maybe half the leave accrued you're guaranteed instead. No more moving guarenteed leave slots from one day to another to help get more leave approved.

Straight shifts can and will work. The quality of life will sky rocket for everyone, along with the health of everyone. Give up 25-50% of guaranteed leave, plan your leave more outside of the core summer months as much as possible, and enjoy a better overall lifestyle.

Lastly, bid trimesters. If you want straight days the entire year and you have the seniority to do it, then bid all three as days. If you have kids and it's better to bid days during school year and maybe swings or mids in summer, then do that.

 

[Kramer]

Why is it so hard for the older generation to go away from 40 hour work weeks? It was an arbitrary number they came up with 100 years ago. Times have changed and it’s outdated, same with OT only being 1.5x pay. This shit needs to be updated and I’m sick of how archaic it all feels. Now I know we don’t have the staffing to truly implement that yet, but we absolutely could start working towards having everything past 34 or 35 or 36 hours worked count as OT. So if you work 48 hours a week, 14 could be OT.

I know this is more of a rant too but it really bothers me with the notion “you have to make those 4 hours up earlier in the week”. Fucking why? To hit that magic number 40 hours? So dumb. Rant over lol.

The issue we have is the entitlement within the controller ranks and the fact we are bound by the contract for the agency to allow us to bid all our accrued leave each year. This is something that will need to change to allow us to bid the straight shifts.

We can't be expected to get to straight shifts and be able to take all the leave accrued. We need to be willing to give up the leave accrued and maybe half the leave accrued you're guaranteed instead. No more moving guarenteed leave slots from one day to another to help get more leave approved.

Straight shifts can and will work. The quality of life will sky rocket for everyone, along with the health of everyone. Give up 25-50% of guaranteed leave, plan your leave more outside of the core summer months as much as possible, and enjoy a better overall lifestyle.

Lastly, bid trimesters. If you want straight days the entire year and you have the seniority to do it, then bid all three as days. If you have kids and it's better to bid days during school year and maybe swings or mids in summer, then do that.

You asking controllers to give up leave slots because the agency fudged staffing numbers for so long ? No I earned my 26 days a year and my 13 sick days a year.

Also I know if at least 3 core towers than run a week of eves, followed by a week of days. I think they even got 3-4 old heads that cover all the mids. So it already works for them and they are not giving up leave. Imagine if natca collaborated that? They lose more members!!

 

[Mike Kilo]

Cba says no more than 9 hour mid. But that can be superseded with an mou.

Doesn’t it say no more than 1 hour holdover? But the shift guidelines mentions people on 10 hour mids starting no later (I think) than 9 pm. Must be in there somewhere.

 

[alaskanmike]

You asking controllers to give up leave slots because the agency fudged staffing numbers for so long ? No I earned my 26 days a year and my 13 sick days a year.

Also I know if at least 3 core towers than run a week of eves, followed by a week of days. I think they even got 3-4 old heads that cover all the mids. So it already works for them and they are not giving up leave. Imagine if natca collaborated that? They lose more members!!

I'm not saying it needs to be permanent, but for a temporary time. This will help reduce even more OT for everyone by transitioning to straight shifts. Additionally, I believe we are the only ones in the federal government guaranteed to use/bid all our accrued leave each year. Again, entitlement.

If we want to help ourselves in the long run, unfortunately we have to help the agency. There's no way around it, hence why we are all sitting here complaining about 6 day work weeks, a crappy schedule, and terrible quality of life. Will it suck? Yep. If we hold the agency accountable by saying we will surrender 35% of guaranteed leave slots to get us off this dog crap rattler but they must also increase hiring efforts/staff the academy to run 24hrs, that could be a win in the long run for us. We could say its temporary MOU for 5yrs and after which we get the full leave returned. Not saying this must be done in this manner but there is some give/take we can certainly do to help us by helping them in the long run.

We need to start thinking more creatively. We all know the agency is stupid and makes terrible decisions year in and year out, so why not have us come up with the solutions with some give/take that will please them and long term, helps us out. Short term certainly will suck but if we continue as is with this new fatigue rule, things will only get worse when more people quit or less people are willing to apply.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

I'm not saying it needs to be permanent, but for a temporary time. This will help reduce even more OT for everyone by transitioning to straight shifts. Additionally, I believe we are the only ones in the federal government guaranteed to use/bid all our accrued leave each year. Again, entitlement.

If we want to help ourselves in the long run, unfortunately we have to help the agency. There's no way around it, hence why we are all sitting here complaining about 6 day work weeks, a crappy schedule, and terrible quality of life. Will it suck? Yep. If we hold the agency accountable by saying we will surrender 35% of guaranteed leave slots to get us off this dog crap rattler but they must also increase hiring efforts/staff the academy to run 24hrs, that could be a win in the long run for us. We could say its temporary MOU for 5yrs and after which we get the full leave returned. Not saying this must be done in this manner but there is some give/take we can certainly do to help us by helping them in the long run.

We need to start thinking more creatively. We all know the agency is stupid and makes terrible decisions year in and year out, so why not have us come up with the solutions with some give/take that will please them and long term, helps us out. Short term certainly will suck but if we continue as is with this new fatigue rule, things will only get worse when more people quit or less people are willing to apply.

Okay, “Alaskan Mike”

 

[DankVectorz]

So you're at work all seven days of the week?

No, because your Sat mid is Friday night into Saturday morning…

 

[Geeare27]

I'm not saying it needs to be permanent, but for a temporary time. This will help reduce even more OT for everyone by transitioning to straight shifts. Additionally, I believe we are the only ones in the federal government guaranteed to use/bid all our accrued leave each year. Again, entitlement.

If we want to help ourselves in the long run, unfortunately we have to help the agency. There's no way around it, hence why we are all sitting here complaining about 6 day work weeks, a crappy schedule, and terrible quality of life. Will it suck? Yep. If we hold the agency accountable by saying we will surrender 35% of guaranteed leave slots to get us off this dog crap rattler but they must also increase hiring efforts/staff the academy to run 24hrs, that could be a win in the long run for us. We could say its temporary MOU for 5yrs and after which we get the full leave returned. Not saying this must be done in this manner but there is some give/take we can certainly do to help us by helping them in the long run.

We need to start thinking more creatively. We all know the agency is stupid and makes terrible decisions year in and year out, so why not have us come up with the solutions with some give/take that will please them and long term, helps us out. Short term certainly will suck but if we continue as is with this new fatigue rule, things will only get worse when more people quit or less people are willing to apply.

Fuckin, nah. We've been helping out the agency for too long as it is and they've taken advantage of it to the extent that most of us only get 4 fucking days off a month. Enough "helping the agency". Fuck the agency. They created this mess

 

[AB19]

Fuckin, nah. We've been helping out the agency for too long as it is and they've taken advantage of it to the extent that most of us only get 4 fucking days off a month. Enough "helping the agency". Fuck the agency. They created this mess

Cmon dude just one more collaboration, it'll totally fix things we need to help poor lil agency how could they forsee this, just one last collaboration

 

[the inquirer]

Doesn’t it say no more than 1 hour holdover? But the shift guidelines mentions people on 10 hour mids starting no later (I think) than 9 pm. Must be in there somewhere.

Yea. If you’re on an aws line. But most facilities won’t approve 4/10s with a mid imo. But it is possible.

 

[Nothanks]

You guys all need to read. The cba says nothing about 10 hour mids. And yes you can work 10 hour mids.

 

[Tater_Toad]

RDO before mid is the way to go. It’s what I do now.
Swing
Swing
Swing
Bang
Mid

I’d love the 4 10s with RDO before mid. It be my wet dream come true

You just don’t do any of that janky crap and someone works a week of mids. We are primed to push for 4 10s rn imo

I'm not saying it needs to be permanent, but for a temporary time. This will help reduce even more OT for everyone by transitioning to straight shifts. Additionally, I believe we are the only ones in the federal government guaranteed to use/bid all our accrued leave each year. Again, entitlement.

If we want to help ourselves in the long run, unfortunately we have to help the agency. There's no way around it, hence why we are all sitting here complaining about 6 day work weeks, a crappy schedule, and terrible quality of life. Will it suck? Yep. If we hold the agency accountable by saying we will surrender 35% of guaranteed leave slots to get us off this dog crap rattler but they must also increase hiring efforts/staff the academy to run 24hrs, that could be a win in the long run for us. We could say its temporary MOU for 5yrs and after which we get the full leave returned. Not saying this must be done in this manner but there is some give/take we can certainly do to help us by helping them in the long run.

We need to start thinking more creatively. We all know the agency is stupid and makes terrible decisions year in and year out, so why not have us come up with the solutions with some give/take that will please them and long term, helps us out. Short term certainly will suck but if we continue as is with this new fatigue rule, things will only get worse when more people quit or less people are willing to apply.

Please start making noise about wanting, needing, requiring 4 10's. Start now and yell loud.


Alaskan dude. I like some of what you're saying. I think your heads in the right place, you just didn't see how the agency truly operates like it hates us all. Monthly rotations, two pay period rotations, 4 week rotations, something like that would be great. You get 4 weeks of this shift, then switch to another shift. Nobody is stuck working the whole summer on evenings getting railed by the traffic. Nobody gets so rusty they're incompetent from the midnights. Nobody misses every fucking thing in their kids lives from being stuck on mornings or whatever screws their family live the hardest. Everybody pays their dues.

These slowly rotating straight shifts eliminate most quick turns. You could make an mou that if you accept the full 4 weeks of straight shifts you're eligible only for that shifts overtimes. If you start swapping this and that then you accept quick turns as a last resort for coverage. Prioritize the elimination of quick turns except for those who opt out and actually want them.

Fuck the FAA. I'm not helping them. They need to start helping us. We work for the public. Management works for the public. Managements incompetence is detrimental to public safety and maybe somebody needs to showcase that. Maybe we need to throw management under the bus via 60 minutes, or 20/20, or joe Rogan or something. Fuck management, all my homies hate management. They're inability to think or plan five minutes into the future has gotten people killed and will get more killed in the future. They have a shortage of technicians because they won't replace someone until 6 months after they've gone. They have a shortage of controllers for the same reason. They know our birthdays but get blindsided when everybody turns 56.

Somebody please blow the ducking whistle on these ass clowns.

The rattler is criminal and you rattler simps are fucking stupid inbred mouth breathing cucks.

5 day work weeks in a high stress profession is fucked. 6 day workweek in perpetuity is negligent on the part of the agency. I know guys with barely a months reprieve once or twice from 6 day weeks over the course of 6 years.

They will bend the fucking knee before us.

 

[bravounite33]

The issue we have is the entitlement within the controller ranks and the fact we are bound by the contract for the agency to allow us to bid all our accrued leave each year. This is something that will need to change to allow us to bid the straight shifts.

We can't be expected to get to straight shifts and be able to take all the leave accrued. We need to be willing to give up the leave accrued and maybe half the leave accrued you're guaranteed instead. No more moving guarenteed leave slots from one day to another to help get more leave approved.

Straight shifts can and will work. The quality of life will sky rocket for everyone, along with the health of everyone. Give up 25-50% of guaranteed leave, plan your leave more outside of the core summer months as much as possible, and enjoy a better overall lifestyle.

Lastly, bid trimesters. If you want straight days the entire year and you have the seniority to do it, then bid all three as days. If you have kids and it's better to bid days during school year and maybe swings or mids in summer, then do that.

I have no idea where you are getting this from? Going to straight shifts doesn't mean you are going to work different shifts then what you do today. It just means instead of ROTATING through the shifts all in a single week, you work a single one or a couple or whatever else works with the new rules. If the schedule you work today works (obviously OT is needed to complete it) then the straight shifts schedule isn't changing that. All it does is change WHO works each shift on each day. It doesn't eliminate that shift from being worked though, which if that was done, THAT would affect the staffing. Let's just say there are 8 people working on the day shifts of a schedule today (which would be the end of their work week), there will still be 8 people working it on straight shifts, but it just wouldn't be the same 8 that are working it today. Instead, some of those might be working it on their Monday for the whole week. But in the end, it's still 8 bodies working (just like if everyone swapped shifts today to work a day shift).

 

[Nothanks]

I have no idea where you are getting this from? Going to straight shifts doesn't mean you are going to work different shifts then what you do today. It just means instead of ROTATING through the shifts all in a single week, you work a single one or a couple or whatever else works with the new rules. If the schedule you work today works (obviously OT is needed to complete it) then the straight shifts schedule isn't changing that. All it does is change WHO works each shift on each day. It doesn't eliminate that shift from being worked though, which if that was done, THAT would affect the staffing. Let's just say there are 8 people working on the day shifts of a schedule today (which would be the end of their work week), there will still be 8 people working it on straight shifts, but it just wouldn't be the same 8 that are working it today. Instead, some of those might be working it on their Monday for the whole week. But in the end, it's still 8 bodies working (just like if everyone swapped shifts today to work a day shift).

No one has any idea what the heck he’s talking about.

Most people commenting have little
Knowledge of the 7210.3 to begin with