New time off between shifts mandate. Big change

[32andBelow]

There will always be some time of rotation. Just won’t be a rotation into a mid every week.

Some could be straights shifts

It’s not one size fits all. Some places have crews of 2 people, others have crews of 7 people.

There won’t really be crews anymore when we are on straight shifts.

 

[ATC Zero]

If you do end up having to do straight shifts you should consider alternating between a week of nights and a week of days. I know it’s not as long as the rattler weekends but you do get an extended weekend twice a month when you transition from days to nights. You would also need to have dedicated permanent mid people to pull it off

What happens to facilities that are so short and when you’re supposed to be on your week of days but they bump you up to another week of nights to cover leave. What we think we are bidding vs what gets published is nowhere near the same so I’m very curious how 2025 is going to look.

 

[rhombus]

What happens to facilities that are so short and when you’re supposed to be on your week of days but they bump you up to another week of nights to cover leave. What we think we are bidding vs what gets published is nowhere near the same so I’m very curious how 2025 is going to look.

That’s about where we are now. Worst staffing we’ve had in a very long time. Usually it’s one or two days a week that people work on the opposite crew on a rotating basis. So maybe a day or two a month per person. Usually OT is enough to cover leave so people can stay on their normal schedule

There won’t really be crews anymore when we are on straight shifts.

What makes you say that?

 

[32andBelow]

What makes you say that?

People will be more spread out and staggered differently. You’ll have people you work around more but I don’t think you’ll have as many people on exactly the same thing

 

[RH316]

What happens to facilities that are so short and when you’re supposed to be on your week of days but they bump you up to another week of nights to cover leave. What we think we are bidding vs what gets published is nowhere near the same so I’m very curious how 2025 is going to look.

💯 Agree. Can’t wait to expect my week of days and then the schedule gets published and I’m working a mid to start my week. Followed by a day, day, day, swing to cover for staffing. Or some other stupid variation.

 

[rhombus]

People will be more spread out and staggered differently. You’ll have people you work around more but I don’t think you’ll have as many people on exactly the same thing

That’s probably true if you do 7 sets of RDOs

💯 Agree. Can’t wait to expect my week of days and then the schedule gets published and I’m working a mid to start my week. Followed by a day, day, day, swing to cover for staffing. Or some other stupid variation.

I will say it’s a shit schedule if you don’t have people that want to work straight mids

 

[Stinger]

In all seriousness what if you just... didn't have the mid? What's worse for the customers, delays for staffing during the day or getting everyone on the ground and then closing the tower overnight?

That's a much bigger discussion than this MOU of course, and apparently it takes quite a lot of effort to reduce operating hours. But it's something to think about.

Depends on what the service area says. Western Service Area said that GTF can go ATC-0 every mid shift since they have staffing problems. JCF was told that they have to schedule one person on the mid.

 

[Nothanks]

There won’t really be crews anymore when we are on straight shifts.

There will be crews

 

[32andBelow]

There will be crews

You don’t know that. Having crews in the traditional sense doesn’t make sense anymore.

 

[chance8846]

You don’t know that. Having crews in the traditional sense doesn’t make sense anymore.

What if the facility split weekend RDOs? Two “crews” being Friday/Saturday & Sunday/Monday. Within those groups you get to bid your shift rotations (days, eves, mids) and how often the rotation happens (weekly, biweekly, monthly, quarterly, etc.). Now everyone gets at least one normal weekend day off. What if NATCA was able to negotiate weekend premium for Saturday & Sunday? Then everyone would get one day of extra premium pay AND a 50% chance of getting that added to an OT assignment. Something like this would instantly improve my QOL. A weekend day off, no more rattler, and more pay.

 

[32andBelow]

What if the facility split weekend RDOs? Two “crews” being Friday/Saturday & Sunday/Monday. Within those groups you get to bid your shift rotations (days, eves, mids) and how often the rotation happens (weekly, biweekly, monthly, quarterly, etc.). Now everyone gets at least one normal weekend day off. What if NATCA was able to negotiate weekend premium for Saturday & Sunday? Then everyone would get one day of extra premium pay AND a 50% chance of getting that added to an OT assignment. Something like this would instantly improve my QOL. A weekend day off, no more rattler, and more pay.

Then you’d have no one off on other days to work OT and you’d have huge overlap staffing on other days. You’d still need the schedule to cascade over 7 days most likely. But it would be more like a retail schedule were your just plugging in all the shifts. At least at a center with lots of controllers. Small
Towers maybe be able to do what you are saying.

 

[Nothanks]

You don’t know that. Having crews in the traditional sense doesn’t make sense anymore.

Yes I do. I’m not doing that

Put 12 hours off in front of a mid. That’s it



Dude build whatever dream schedule it is you want and present it to your rep. No one is saying you can’t do that. Posting your thoughts on .65 isn’t going to change what your facility does. The MOU is out, go work with those rules.

Or post the whole thought out schedule here. Not just some random bits and pieces, it helps no one and means nothing.

 

[32andBelow]

Yes I do. I’m not doing that

Put 12 hours off in front of a mid. That’s it



Dude build whatever dream schedule it is you want and present it to your rep. No one is saying you can’t do that. Posting your thoughts on .65 isn’t going to change what your facility does. The MOU is out, go work with those rules.

Or post the whole thought out schedule here. Not just some random bits and pieces, it helps no one and means nothing.

Why do you think people want to work midnight mids and 10 hour shifts earlier in the week? Many won’t agree to that. We have mock up schedules that are straight lines and the normal crew setup starts to break down

 

[Nothanks]

Why do you think people want to work midnight mids and 10 hour shifts earlier in the week? Many won’t agree to that. We have mock up schedules that are straight lines and the normal crew setup starts to break down

Define normal crew setup?you still have sets of RDO’s or a crew.

I don’t think people want to work midnight mids, or extra hours earlier in the week. That’s why I wouldn’t build that.

 

[32andBelow]

Define normal crew setup?you still have sets of RDO’s or a crew.

I don’t think people want to work midnight mids, or extra hours earlier in the week. That’s why I wouldn’t build that.

So if you don’t do the modified schedule then you’re going to wind up on straight lines. Your sat sun RDOs for example will have people working all throughout the day. So it won’t be a crew in the way it is now.

 

[Nothanks]

So if you don’t do the modified schedule then you’re going to wind up on straight lines. Your sat sun RDOs for example will have people working all throughout the day. So it won’t be a crew in the way it is now.

A crew is a group of people on a set of RDOs to me. That’s it

And no you don’t need straight lines to accomplish this. Everyone is way too simple minded apparently

Flexibility depends on crew sizes

 

[32andBelow]

A crew is a group of people on a set of RDOs to me. That’s it

And no you don’t need straight lines to accomplish this. Everyone is way too simple minded apparently

Flexibility depends on crew sizes

I guess I see a crew as a group of people who work together for the whole week like we do now

 

[Nothanks]

I guess I see a crew as a group of people who work together for the whole week like we do now

Like YOU do now at your facility. You want straight shifts, that’s what you are getting at.

-Build the schedule and tell your rep
- run for facrep and do it yourself
- talk about it on .65

1 of these options is not like the other

 

[Move78]

I guess I see a crew as a group of people who work together for the whole week like we do now

A crew is a group that shares RDOs

 

[32andBelow]

A crew is a group that shares RDOs

Which now all works together and in the future will barely work together if you go to straight shifts because the other people on your “shift” will have different RDOs. That’s the difference I’m talking about