February (Q2) 2022

[Mike Kilo]

The first bid I applied 2 you could only put 2 states

And my point stands. Is the guy from ND gonna put his state down? Not if he wants to get hired. You choose the states with the highest number of facilities and then transfer later after your foot is in the door.

 

[BDUB]

I think it’s funny that they never make changes to NCEPT. Unless it’s the COVID changes that made it even worse of a process. You’d think every year they’d say hey we can make this process better by doing this instead of just letting the process play out for years with a vast majority hating the entire process….and god forbid they put a cap on the amount of applications you can put in for different places. You shouldn’t be able to shotgun the entire country to get out of your facility.

 

[ZO]

I think it’s funny that they never make changes to NCEPT. Unless it’s the COVID changes that made it even worse of a process. You’d think every year they’d say hey we can make this process better by doing this instead of just letting the process play out for years with a vast majority hating the entire process….and god forbid they put a cap on the amount of applications you can put in for different places. You shouldn’t be able to shotgun the entire country to get out of your facility.

What changes would you propose?

 

[BDUB]

What changes would you propose?

It’s a good thing I’m not on a committee making 150k plus to come up with these kinds of ideas. But to tell me NCEPT is flawless and shouldn’t be changed is absurd….

 

[Dynamic_Decisions]

What changes would you propose?

I think we should really up the amount of dynamic decisions...these are rookie numbers.

 

[BDUB]

I think we should really up the amount of dynamic decisions...these are rookie numbers.

This guy gets it

 

[ZO]

It’s a good thing I’m not on a committee making 150k plus to come up with these kinds of ideas. But to tell me NCEPT is flawless and shouldn’t be changed is absurd….

Yes but just saying "nAtCa Do SoMeThiNg" is pointless. We are a collective, if you have an idea how to fix it, bring it up to your RVP or regional NCEPT lead. I guarantee they will listen. But to just complain is not constructive in the slightest.

I don't think anyone said NCEPT is flawless.

 

[Lvl8twr]

Yes but just saying "nAtCa Do SoMeThiNg" is pointless. We are a collective, if you have an idea how to fix it, bring it up to your RVP or regional NCEPT lead. I guarantee they will listen. But to just complain is not constructive in the slightest.

I don't think anyone said NCEPT is flawless.

Thanks, I needed the belly laugh!

 

[32andBelow]

All the other agencies just get to post open positions and fill them. Weird concept

 

[AB19]

All the other agencies just get to post open positions and fill them. Weird concept

You can apply to Philly C90 and N90 and hear nothing

 

[sillyatc]

Yes but just saying "nAtCa Do SoMeThiNg" is pointless. We are a collective, if you have an idea how to fix it, bring it up to your RVP or regional NCEPT lead. I guarantee they will listen. But to just complain is not constructive in the slightest.

I don't think anyone said NCEPT is flawless.

Tell me you've never had a conversation with your RVP without telling me you've never had a conversation with your RVP.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

Yes but just saying "nAtCa Do SoMeThiNg" is pointless. We are a collective, if you have an idea how to fix it, bring it up to your RVP or regional NCEPT lead. I guarantee they will listen. But to just complain is not constructive in the slightest.

I don't think anyone said NCEPT is flawless.

I would bet some RVPs don't know shit about NCEPT. If you really have questions about NCEPT ask your regional NCEPT rep.

 

[ZO]

I would bet some RVPs don't know shit about NCEPT. If you really have questions about NCEPT ask your regional NCEPT rep.

Yeah I meant RVP as a reference. I assumed most people who just shout in the NCEPT hate echo chamber probably don't even realize that a regional NCEPT rep is a position.

 

[Homsar]

The current process is about as fair as it can be right now. It's 99% just a numbers game. Some just drew bad hands and it's unfortunate, but it is better than how it was before and I'm sure anyone could attest to that.

Probably the worst take in the thread. You can’t claim it’s “99% a numbers game” when they make new rules every panel. The NCEPT selection rules of 2015 and 2022 are like night and day. Oh, a facility can select 8 to get staffed to national average? In 2015, they could pick up 8 because it was a true numbers game. In 2022, sorry, they can only get 2 due to “dynamic decisions.”

As another poster said, I’d gladly take a 3 year release date to a facility that I’ve networked to get selected by and see a light at the end of the tunnel than have disappointment after disappointment when my facility can’t release as each panel comes and goes for reasons beyond local control (training bans due to Covid with waivers not being allowed being the biggest one lately, the second being a combination of not being able to select any new people due to those trainees not being able to train and blocking any further incoming ERRs from being picked up due to NCEPT selection rules/any direct hires, and being above the maximum level that academy grads can go to).

NCEPT is awful, and needs to go.

 

[ZO]

Probably the worst take in the thread. You can’t claim it’s “99% a numbers game” when they make new rules every panel. The NCEPT selection rules of 2015 and 2022 are like night and day. Oh, a facility can select 8 to get staffed to national average? In 2015, they could pick up 8 because it was a true numbers game. In 2022, sorry, they can only get 2 due to “dynamic decisions.”

As another poster said, I’d gladly take a 3 year release date to a facility that I’ve networked to get selected by and see a light at the end of the tunnel than have disappointment after disappointment when my facility can’t release as each panel comes and goes for reasons beyond local control (training bans due to Covid with waivers not being allowed being the biggest one lately, the second being a combination of not being able to select any new people due to those trainees not being able to train and blocking any further incoming ERRs from being picked up due to NCEPT selection rules/any direct hires, and being above the maximum level that academy grads can go to).

NCEPT is awful, and needs to go.

NCEPT has changed a lot since inception. I think the first one let go like 300 people or something and it was every month? Obviously that is detrimental to the NAS, taking that many CPCs at once and turning them into trainees for ~12ish months.

I wasn't around before NCEPT, but everything I've heard was you had to bootlick management and pray you get selected. No fair shot for anyone. You can't tell me it's not a numbers game. If you're green, and the gaining facility is green then you leave. Simple as that. (Obviously at time of the draft and manager ranking comes into play)

Covid was clearly a curveball that almost no system is prepared for. We're on 5/10s, 5/5s whatever, we can't be dropping 100 CPCs every quarter when we need them for staffing.

Temp restrictions are loosening as manning recovers and trainees get through. I honestly don't see what more you can ask from the Agency at this moment in time.

 

[32andBelow]

NCEPT has changed a lot since inception. I think the first one let go like 300 people or something and it was every month? Obviously that is detrimental to the NAS, taking that many CPCs at once and turning them into trainees for ~12ish months.

I wasn't around before NCEPT, but everything I've heard was you had to bootlick management and pray you get selected. No fair shot for anyone. You can't tell me it's not a numbers game. If you're green, and the gaining facility is green then you leave. Simple as that. (Obviously at time of the draft and manager ranking comes into play)

Covid was clearly a curveball that almost no system is prepared for. We're on 5/10s, 5/5s whatever, we can't be dropping 100 CPCs every quarter when we need them for staffing.

Temp restrictions are loosening as manning recovers and trainees get through. I honestly don't see what more you can ask from the Agency at this moment in time.

So they made it fair by selecting no one. They keep raising the requirements to release as staffing improves. If your in a medium to lightly well staffed center you can never release and can never pick up. It’s psychotic

 

[Homsar]

NCEPT has changed a lot since inception. I think the first one let go like 300 people or something and it was every month? Obviously that is detrimental to the NAS, taking that many CPCs at once and turning them into trainees for ~12ish months.

If the facility can spare them and not go below national average, which is literally what facilities are supposed to staff to, then it shouldn’t be detrimental to the NAS. Numbers game, right? The magic number is national average.

I wasn't around before NCEPT, but everything I've heard was you had to bootlick management and pray you get selected. No fair shot for anyone.

Well, you mostly heard wrong. You didn’t see JNU to ATL often/at all because networking was important, and selections cared about where you certified before. They wanted to see career progression, not expecting to jump to a 12 from a 5 because “numbers.” The most important thing was what I mentioned before: no constantly changing numbers needed to release, if you applied and were selected, you were released, period. The only variable factor was how long your released date was.

Yes, some facilities were showing evidence of a good old boys network, and NCEPT sought to change that by removing that in the form of guaranteed releases despite certified facility level if you met release criteria. It was just too far of a swing of the pendulum in the other direction, and instead of gradually working towards the middle, each new rule swings the pendulum further to the other side.

You can't tell me it's not a numbers game. If you're green, and the gaining facility is green then you leave. Simple as that. (Obviously at time of the draft and manager ranking comes into play)

You can’t say it’s a numbers game when the numbers needed to transfer change each panel, and they reserve the right to deny transfers regardless of numbers “dynamically.”

Covid was clearly a curveball that almost no system is prepared for. We're on 5/10s, 5/5s whatever, we can't be dropping 100 CPCs every quarter when we need them for staffing.

Again, numbers game, national average being the target number. You can’t play it both ways.

Temp restrictions are loosening as manning recovers and trainees get through. I honestly don't see what more you can ask from the Agency at this moment in time.

Mandatory releases regardless of staffing level, even if they are back to 3 year release dates. Black hole facilities are an embarrassment.

So they made it fair by selecting no one. They keep raising the requirements to release as staffing improves. If your in a medium to lightly well staffed center you can never release and can never pick up. It’s psychotic

A rare case when 32 and I agree. Something to pay attention to.

 

[32andBelow]

National average is what’s messing it all up. You used to be able to release at 78 and it goes up and up and up. If you keep raising the national average and the release level then you can never release. One day your facility will be 97% staffed and the average will be 99 and you won’t be able to release

But then the amazing part is you are deemed to well staff to gain. So people that want to come to your facility can’t come either.

 

[Super Salt]

If the facility can spare them and not go below national average, which is literally what facilities are supposed to staff to, then it shouldn’t be detrimental to the NAS. Numbers game, right? The magic number is national average.



Well, you mostly heard wrong. You didn’t see JNU to ATL often/at all because networking was important, and selections cared about where you certified before. They wanted to see career progression, not expecting to jump to a 12 from a 5 because “numbers.” The most important thing was what I mentioned before: no constantly changing numbers needed to release, if you applied and were selected, you were released, period. The only variable factor was how long your released date was.

Yes, some facilities were showing evidence of a good old boys network, and NCEPT sought to change that by removing that in the form of guaranteed releases despite certified facility level if you met release criteria. It was just too far of a swing of the pendulum in the other direction, and instead of gradually working towards the middle, each new rule swings the pendulum further to the other side.



You can’t say it’s a numbers game when the numbers needed to transfer change each panel, and they reserve the right to deny transfers regardless of numbers “dynamically.”



Again, numbers game, national average being the target number. You can’t play it both ways.



Mandatory releases regardless of staffing level, even if they are back to 3 year release dates. Black hole facilities are an embarrassment.




A rare case when 32 and I agree. Something to pay attention to.

This dude NCEPTs.

 

[Move78]

So they made it fair by selecting no one. They keep raising the requirements to release as staffing improves. If your in a medium to lightly well staffed center you can never release and can never pick up. It’s psychotic

They haven’t raised the requirements to release in 3 years. Again you’re only concerned with yourself. There are many centers that have released a ton of people and ask the controllers at some of those centers and they’ll say why are we releasing when our staffing sucks.