New time off between shifts mandate. Big change

[HurryUpandWait]

It was a collaborative effort between the ATMs and the reps. The Agency has just as much stake in the CRWG as the Union.

Can’t tell 32 that because it involves collaboration and 32 doesn’t believe in collaboration

 

[KP-ATC]

The ones with at least 50 employees? Article 31 brah.

That prerequisite basically means all high level facilities. I was just using that as an example but if you have 49 employees you’re 100% on your own because that makes sense for the gubment.

The childcare you referenced is not cheap.

 

[Deuce]

The ones with at least 50 employees? Article 31 brah.

That prerequisite basically means all high level facilities. I was just using that as an example but if you have 49 employees you’re 100% on your own because that makes sense for the gubment.

Sorry I'm genuinely curious we have over 100 controllers and I've never heard of anyone here getting childcare

 

[the inquirer]

Sorry I'm genuinely curious we have over 100 controllers and I've never heard of anyone here getting childcare

No CPC is getting free childcare. The childcare people speak of is a daycare located either on the premises or nearby with extended hours which accommodate our schedules. Trainees get some discounts but as you certify, the discounts go away.

 

[HammerHead]

I mean it already does. I've got almost a decade in the agency, over 1/3 done with my career, and I'm still required to work every single Friday and Saturday night with a quick turn to Sunday morning.

I mean in my opinion, that is nowhere near the assfucking that a full year of mids would be. I personally prefer wed thu over most of the shit lines. Mostly because I can get Sunday pay but still get home and watch NFL games.

 

[Soul_Controller]

And NATCa, you didn't see this coming in 2017/2019? I get it's the FAAs job to hire, but don't you want more members? Or to look out for current members? Why didn't you go to congress 7-10 years ago?

They did. It was called privatization.

 

[blockdenied]

People on here hate to admit that allowing trainees to have say in where they live would fix staffing much faster.

Many people just feel the need that since they went through it, so the other trainees must go through it too.

 

[Spoony90]

This is gonna turn into working 2 ten hour shifts for us to be able to leave 4 hours early off the 0530 shift for the mid

 

[ABACUS]

Why would NATCA create an AWS to help the agency? The CBA is pretty clear that we work 5 consecutive days of 8 hour shifts unless volunteering otherwise. Tighten the fucking screws.

 

[bomber996]

Realistically does the FAA have the authority to mandate these new restrictions mid MOU? Could these be imposed on us?

 

[Rico]

Realistically does the FAA have the authority to mandate these new restrictions mid MOU? Could these be imposed on us?

No.

 

[Soul_Controller]

Many people just feel the need that since they went through it, so the other trainees must go through it too.

The problem is that it's not really a solution. You guys jump from "direct hiring" to "everyone ends up locally" without realizing the amount of people that would apply to any place just to get hired.

 

[Spoony90]

Many people just feel the need that since they went through it, so the other trainees must go through it too.

How bout we move everyone currently hired then we start to hire locally? Everyone wins

 

[32andBelow]

The problem is that it's not really a solution. You guys jump from "direct hiring" to "everyone ends up locally" without realizing the amount of people that would apply to any place just to get hired.

You could actually hold interviews at the facility

 

[LazyBones]

If anyone gets a chance to check out the fatigue risk assessment report that Whitaker refers to in his agency emails I would recommend a read through to gain some context. It does rehash allot of studies that’ve been done over the past few decades.

The TLDR on page 2 is basically the suggested actions include the suggested 10-12 hours of rest between shifts, and the removal of what they call the counter clock-wise 2-2-1 rotating schedule or the “rattler”.

Some people here and on Reddit trying to work out a new rattler or even a “reverse rattler” might be missing the point that the agency might be making a move to eliminate it entirely starting with the increased time off.

I’ve never minded the rattler I knew it was bad for me but the scientific evidence that it might literally be killing me is a bit jarring.

At the same time I’m at a midsize facility where someone tried to make a straight day/swing/mid schedule that didn’t work because we didn’t have the manning for it. So not really sure how this is gonna pan out for any low to mid facility like ours.

 

[ATOH]

The problem is the imposed rules simply don’t work for 24 hour facilities that have consistent OT. You either need to have straight shifts or first day mids. First day mids should be illegal. It completely ruins the 2nd RDO and if you have OT on the first RDO you have zero weekend and are also now in the building for parts of 7 days in a row.

Either way if anyone scheduled a mid takes SL there is no way to replace them as all of your day shifts are likely ineligible due to the 12 hour rule. The only way to combat this I see is to allow some sort of excused absence at the end of the current day shifts before a mid that counts towards the 12 hours. Example you work 530a-1330p, but get excused at 1030am, and come back at 1030pm for the mid. However now you need call in OT for swing shifts to cover it.

The rattler isn’t bad at all if you don’t have OT on your weekend but that doesn’t apply to many facilities anymore

 

[inthrewtheoutdor]

Any studies ever look at 10-12 hour shifts?
If you could guarantee hour on, hour off for 12 hours what's the fatigue performance result?

The current/past studies I imagine look at more time on position and less time on break.

What do other countries do? Military? Why is 10 the max. Keep the 60 hour week max but guarantee equivalent time on break/non-operational to time on on position and I'm sure it's manageable.

Less appearances at work makes everyone happy. Lot of stressful civil service jobs allow 10-12s hour shifts then swing into 3-4 RDOs. A mini vacation every week

 

[SquawkHijack]

No CPC is getting free childcare. The childcare people speak of is a daycare located either on the premises or nearby with extended hours which accommodate our schedules. Trainees get some discounts but as you certify, the discounts go away.

For the record I never said anyone is getting free childcare. But absolutely no one at lower level facs get assistance because of their numbers per the article. Hence one example why the higher level, bigger facilities are getting more perks from the CBA. That was my point.

 

[DankVectorz]

Straight shifts that rotate every week are great…until you hit that mid week. 5 mids in a row is a killer. Did this schedule for years and it was probably the worst of them all.

We rotate every week between days and mids but there is no week of mids rotation. Youll get 2-3 mids in a row every few months during your day shift week but not regularly. Part of that is we have enough people who like mids that you can swap out of them usually and those people are scheduled more mids, but it’s literally been over a year since I’ve worked a mid and that was only because I asked for it.

 

[SquawkHijack]

The childcare you referenced is not cheap.

Child care is never cheap for anyone. Neither is being stuck at a 5-7 and having to pay for a nanny on top of daycare because you can’t find extended hour daycare. But keep making excuses for folks who make level 10-12 pay and allegedly have it so much worse…