September (Q4) 2019

[PushingTin]

Without the union there would have been 0 transfers.

You might have been able to say that at inception of NCEPT. Something like "without the union there would have been 0 non politically connected fair trasnfers" , but now that its been tweaked and made more subjective, more corrupt, and far less transparent; this is def not true. You can reasonably make the argument that "at least I could have went and secured my own transfer before with a 24ish month release date",but now i am stuck in endless purgatory thanks to incompetent people who make so called "dynamic decisions"".

The union is generally much better than the agency at looking out for working conditions, but not all criticism of the union is bad.

 

[Flyaboveall]

My rep said FAA wanted to halt all transfers the rest of the year and NATCA negotiated this

I’m sure that was huge for a lot of people about level 9 and below not being able to pick up

 

[twn]

The union no longer has its members interests in mind

 

[EMTATCT]

We're going to go 8 months without a legit NCEPT pull. The last one was in APRIL. This is such bullshit. I dont know why the Union bit off on this. This NCEPT thing is horrible.

 

[CK]

Just in case anyone needs the link... https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf1188.pdf

Put in between Jan 1st and March 1st

 

[gunf1ghter]

New plan - next election cycle, get someone to nominate each of you for RVP, then we can naruto run to DC and beat this NCEPT. They can't catch all of us.

 

[Move78]

We're going to go 8 months without a legit NCEPT pull. The last one was in APRIL. This is such bullshit. I dont know why the Union bit off on this. This NCEPT thing is horrible.

This site a misinformation cesspool. The agency's plan was 0 transfers for 1 year.

 

[BCHOOSIER]

This in the GL region?

Yes, and checkout the upgrade list/numbers and see if AZO is going to be a level 8. They barely are running 7 numbers and it's summer. Wait till winter hits. I'm really surprised more people aren't talking about this consolidation failure!
You can work an airplane across the whole state on MI, 25 traffic calls and requests...counts for one op. I was told over and over from both sides using the "conservative numbers", it should be a level 8. Where does it stop? Do we just consolidated every 7 and below up/down and have one national level 5 or 6 radar facility in the middle of nowhere. And for those that think their facility won't be touch because you're "busy", it's got nothing to do with your traffic count. It's all about dollars and cents. Wait until your facility is old and needs upgraded and see if your "busy" traffic saves your facility.

 

[Move78]

You might have been able to say that at inception of NCEPT. Something like "without the union there would have been 0 non politically connected fair trasnfers" , but now that its been tweaked and made more subjective, more corrupt, and far less transparent; this is def not true. You can reasonably make the argument that "at least I could have went and secured my own transfer before with a 24ish month release date",but now i am stuck in endless purgatory thanks to incompetent people who make so called "dynamic decisions"".

The union is generally much better than the agency at looking out for working conditions, but not all criticism of the union is bad.

You couldn't secure anything because the agency would have let 0 people transfer.

Was it NATCA’s idea or the agency idea on basically removing round 2 to allow level 9 and below facilities to pick up to 100%?

The agency wanted to remove both rounds. By the time they get to round 2 they've already exceeded the amount of moves they're comfortable with.

 

[PushingTin]

You couldn't secure anything because the agency would have let 0 people transfer.

Objection! Calls for extreme speculation.

why not? There wouldn't have been the current imbalance without NCEPT and things would therefore have stayed status quo.

 

[Move78]

Incorrect

IncorrectIncorrect.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

Live look in of my reaction to the releasing of the list:

 

[PushingTin]

Live look in of my reaction to the releasing of the list:

I more like...

 

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

I know I'm just shouting into the void and there are alot of pissed off people, but I'm real annoyed that the agency effectively eliminated the former path to a level 12 facility. I moved from a small tower to a mid-level tower to gain the experience to move up to a 12. Instead, I'm getting passed over by people from level 5 towers. They'll talk to as many planes in a shift that they might in a year. I don't think that's fair to anyone and I don't think it is logical in any way you look at it. Training success rates are going to continue to suck as long as NCEPT does this trash.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I know I'm just shouting into the void and there are alot of pissed off people, but I'm real annoyed that the agency effectively eliminated the former path to a level 12 facility. I moved from a small tower to a mid-level tower to gain the experience to move up to a 12. Instead, I'm getting passed over by people from level 5 towers. They'll talk to as many planes in a shift that they might in a year. I don't think that's fair to anyone and I don't think it is logical in any way you look at it. Training success rates are going to continue to suck as long as NCEPT does this trash.

There was no paved path before that I’m aware of. The managers usually had the say in who they selected. Some go off of experience (higher facility etc) and some chose to go off of feeder facilities in the area.

But I will agree. I like the idea of a 3 level cap and everyone starts at a 7 or below. And yes I realize some controllers at level 5s can be exceptional. Doesn’t change anything. Do your time and work your way up.

 

[Move78]

Yes, and checkout the upgrade list/numbers and see if AZO is going to be a level 8. They barely are running 7 numbers and it's summer. Wait till winter hits. I'm really surprised more people aren't talking about this consolidation failure!
You can work an airplane across the whole state on MI, 25 traffic calls and requests...counts for one op. I was told over and over from both sides using the "conservative numbers", it should be a level 8. Where does it stop? Do we just consolidated every 7 and below up/down and have one national level 5 or 6 radar facility in the middle of nowhere. And for those that think their facility won't be touch because you're "busy", it's got nothing to do with your traffic count. It's all about dollars and cents. Wait until your facility is old and needs upgraded and see if your "busy" traffic saves your facility.

You have to let the count program run for 12 months to get an accurate CI. And CIs don't go up and down based on seasonal traffic the way the actual traffic count does. CI is what determines FPL.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Not sure how it works with a large consolidated Tracon, but I was told at a smaller updown the primary airport only received the “better” count while the rest are considered secondary airports even if the radar is a separate site and cannot be combined up. Again, not saying it is this way, just what I was told.

 

[Dontbotherme]

You’re going to see more certifications and less moves until the agency can fill their management openings. It’s amazing how we haven’t been able to release anyone (like many other facilities), but yet we’ve had numerous deviations approved for supervisory positions here and elsewhere. Standards have dropped significantly (not on the trainer’s part), but those certified bodies are only replacing outbound management cronies.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I know I'm just shouting into the void and there are alot of pissed off people, but I'm real annoyed that the agency effectively eliminated the former path to a level 12 facility. I moved from a small tower to a mid-level tower to gain the experience to move up to a 12. Instead, I'm getting passed over by people from level 5 towers. They'll talk to as many planes in a shift that they might in a year. I don't think that's fair to anyone and I don't think it is logical in any way you look at it. Training success rates are going to continue to suck as long as NCEPT does this trash.

That’s how it was sold, like a minor league baseball program when you go from A to AA to AAA (level 5, 8, 12). But it never came close to working that was as once they finally staffed most of the 5’s those were the only places that could release people, so they went right to the 12’s.

 

[BCHOOSIER]

You have to let the count program run for 12 months to get an accurate CI. And CIs don't go up and down based on seasonal traffic the way the actual traffic count does. CI is what determines FPL.

I understand how TCI is calculated. All the facilities have been consolidated to AZO since the beginning of June. Please look at their TCI numbers since then, it doesn't look promising. They barely got over the breakpoint in August for a level 7. You do not need to wait a full year to see where this is going. You think they'll wait a full year to start downgrading all the new tower only facilities so they can get an accurate idea of the TCIs? They won't, trust me I was on the countless telecons outlining the process and timeline.