3rd Quarter 2017

[CaptainObvious]

So how to I double check the manager ranking list if I can't get access to it? I was told by NATCA that I was selected first. However, I didn't receive the earlier, Cat 1 release date that being selected 1st is entitled.

At least you had a chance to get selected

 

[breakaway2000]

So how to I double check the manager ranking list if I can't get access to it? I was told by NATCA that I was selected first. However, I didn't receive the earlier, Cat 1 release date that being selected 1st is entitled.

You haven't completely explained your situation. I'm going to assume two people from your facility were selected to the same facility. One got a Cat 1 release date and the other got a Cat 2 release date. The manager's ranking list has nothing to do with this. Section 12 Paragraph H of the ERR MOU...

"In the event more than one (1) employee is selected for the same facility, release dates shall be determined in order of receipt of the ERR/Merit Promotion Program (MPP) package at the servicing HR office."

 

[Mike Kilo]

All higher level recieving facilities hate this process even more than the people waiting to bid out of their first facility. They're getting too few bodies they're almost entirely bodies they would have never chosen otherwise.

The highly sought after towers aren't feeling this too badly as they keep selecting from 5s and 6s consistently. And it's not the NCEPT board doing it to them, it is their rankings. They have higher level people on their lists.

 

[Saint]

That is the situation, and that is what I thought as well. However, I was given the manager ranking explanation when I asked about our ERR submission dates (since other cpc was still in training after I thought I submitted).

 

[Move78]

The highly sought after towers aren't feeling this too badly as they keep selecting from 5s and 6s consistently. And it's not the NCEPT board doing it to them, it is their rankings. They have higher level people on their lists.

They don't have many higher level people on their lists. But yeah I agree with you there seems to be many cases where some higher level towers are choosing 5/6s on purpose.

 

[breakaway2000]

That is the situation, and that is what I thought as well. However, I was given the manager ranking explanation when I asked about our ERR submission dates (since other cpc was still in training after I thought I submitted).

Their answer seems like they were confused by the question as selections are made by the order of the managers ranking lists, but release dates for two people selected for the same facility are not. It certainly is possible he/she put in an ERR while they were in training. A similar situation happened at a facility three panels ago. Two people were selected to the same facility, but the only date they had on file was the updated ERR submission date. Person A had their ERR in much longer, but had to update it prior to the panel. Person B submitted an ERR for the first time prior to Person A updating his. Person B was unfairly granted the Cat 1 release. They ended up allowing both of them to be released on the same date in a Cat 1 window.

Long story short, your ATM and the receiving ATM should have been given a list with the submission date of both your ERR's to know which person to give the Cat 1 release to. If you feel it was in error, they do have access to it. If your ATM sounds confused by the question, your RVP also has access to the information and can tell you the exact dates of when you and the other person submitted their ERR.

 

[rugbydog11]

Their answer seems like they were confused by the question as selections are made by the order of the managers ranking lists, but release dates for two people selected for the same facility are not. It certainly is possible he/she put in an ERR while they were in training. A similar situation happened at a facility three panels ago. Two people were selected to the same facility, but the only date they had on file was the updated ERR submission date. Person A had their ERR in much longer, but had to update it prior to the panel. Person B submitted an ERR for the first time prior to Person A updating his. Person B was unfairly granted the Cat 1 release. They ended up allowing both of them to be released on the same date in a Cat 1 window.

Long story short, your ATM and the receiving ATM should have been given a list with the submission date of both your ERR's to know which person to give the Cat 1 release to. If you feel it was in error, they do have access to it. If your ATM sounds confused by the question, your RVP also has access to the information and can tell you the exact dates of when you and the other person submitted their ERR.

If the person submitted the ERR while still in training and it says CPC, its false and shouldn't be counted.

 

[Saint]

I believe Omegahare's answer is correct. It's not a tie if the Manager ranking list is completed. I'll try to get the list elsewhere, bc that's what they're saying they go by.

 

[breakaway2000]

If the person submitted the ERR while still in training and it says CPC, its false and shouldn't be counted.

That is certainly a variable I have not seen play out. For example, HR is suppose to keep two dates, original submission date and your updated date. The original submission date is used to determine your release date if two people are selected from the same facility to the same facility as outlined in Section 12 Paragraph H of the MOU. If a trainee submitted an ERR, then updated it when they became CPC, I'd imagine they would keep the original submission date, but I haven't seen it play out yet.

I believe Omegahare's answer is correct. It's not a tie if the Manager ranking list is completed. I'll try to get the list elsewhere, bc that's what they're saying they go by.

It's not. The word "tie-break" is not used at all in the MOU and it's not how they've handled every single situation in which two people from the same facility are selected for the same facility up to this point. ERR submission date determines the order of release.

Prior to this last panel (because they required ATM's to rank every single person or they would have their list returned to them), ATM's used to be able to rank people 99 or simply unrank them. If an ATM did this and had less ERR's then available slots, everyone was selected. If two people were unranked where a facility could only release one person, ERR Submission date determined who was selected.

Again, I've seen this play out multiple times. It's ERR Submission date, your ATM has it, your receiving ATM has it, your RVP has it, etc. Ask for the dates if you feel it is in error.

Speaking honestly about it. This is something that should've been taken care of in the first week after selections. It's been a month and a half. Even if you found out there was an error, given that the other person has been holding an FOL for a ~ month, I have no idea if they'd impose a statute of limitations.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I have it direct from HR in northwest mountain that when you renew your err paperwork, they DO NOT keep track of your original file date. Maybe different regions handle it differently.

 

[breakaway2000]

I have it direct from HR in northwest mountain that when you renew your err paperwork, they DO NOT keep track of your original file date. Maybe different regions handle it differently.

It certainly could be the case, our RVP has stated that the southern region does keep track. I've always urged people to save the ERR submission date receipts in case you ever find yourself in a situation like Saint had above. The southern region makes it easy, all the receipts are emailed to you, other regions I had in for still sent back the paper receipts with no electronic notification.

 

[adub]

AAL, ANM and AWP definitely do send back mail receipts. I had ANM call and do electronic updates but they still sent paper responses.

 

[SugarFoot1]

It certainly could be the case, our RVP has stated that the southern region does keep track. I've always urged people to save the ERR submission date receipts in case you ever find yourself in a situation like Saint had above. The southern region makes it easy, all the receipts are emailed to you, other regions I had in for still sent back the paper receipts with no electronic notification.

I never received a confirmation so I called and the southern region read off to me all the ones I have in.

 

[Move78]

I believe Omegahare's answer is correct. It's not a tie if the Manager ranking list is completed. I'll try to get the list elsewhere, bc that's what they're saying they go by.

I think @breakaway2000 is right about them moving the release dates around. Of course offering release dates not based on selection order is retarded. If a facility can release 2 with 1 cat 1 and 1 cat 2 and person A gets picked by the 5th facility in the draft and person B gets picked by the 6th facility in the draft then person A gets the cat 1 date. But if person A gets picked by the 5th facility in the draft and person B gets picked later on the list by the 5th facility in the draft they let person B jump person A for cat 1 if his submission date is earlier.

 

[Saint]

@breakaway2000 you were correct. I showed the Paragraph H, and local/national HR + NATCA agreed that it was ERR submission date that determined our releases. The good news is that I am now a Cat 1 release! The bad news is that my ATM immediately filed a deviation request to force me to stay for a full year. LORD Willing the request will be denied, and I'll be out in a couple months!

 

[breakaway2000]

@breakaway2000 you were correct. I showed the Paragraph H, and local/national HR + NATCA agreed that it was ERR submission date that determined our releases. The good news is that I am now a Cat 1 release! The bad news is that my ATM immediately filed a deviation request to force me to stay for a full year. LORD Willing the request will be denied, and I'll be out in a couple months!

Wow that's awesome! Congrats! Let us know what happens with the deviation, I can't imagine them approving the deviation when it was a mistake on their part which prevented you the initial Cat 1 release.