3rd Quarter 2017

[Mike Kilo]

There is no "release, receive, or neither" rule. It is all predicated on your staffing level. I am not sure if it is still available, but there was a large map that showed all facilities along with current and projected staffing levels. This map had facilities color coded. What I "recall" had the CAT 1 green, CAT 2 orange, and below category as red. I haven't tried to find it in a while, so it could be gone. That is where I assume they get their "colors"

 

[AirTC2016]

I was informed by someone on this site about the “release, receive, or neither” rule and was told it was a new rule.

The colors are coming from the PPT. They have it listed if you unhide the columns.

 

[MJ]

I was informed by someone on this site about the “release, receive, or neither” rule and was told it was a new rule.

The colors are coming from the PPT. They have it listed if you unhide the columns.

It was like that initially. There was no rule stating that, it was just how it worked. It's still like that for 10-12, and seems to be arbitrary for 8-9.

 

[Move78]

There is no "release, receive, or neither" rule. It is all predicated on your staffing level. I am not sure if it is still available, but there was a large map that showed all facilities along with current and projected staffing levels. This map had facilities color coded. What I "recall" had the CAT 1 green, CAT 2 orange, and below category as red. I haven't tried to find it in a while, so it could be gone. That is where I assume they get their "colors"

It was the same backwards colors I believe. So yellow was the fat facilities. Green in the middle.

 

[Move78]

Stop and think. If it's yellow the facility is already in a category. If it's green it might not be.

But the extra movement thing is either poorly worded or poorly thought out. My money is on the latter. Total bullshit would be a better description.

Aside: all of this complexity and patching being tacked on every couple months is because the foundation is rotten.

It's gotta be poorly worded. It's gotta mean you can release someone to a 9 or below after the original NCEPT draft if your facility is still green and the receiving 9 or below is less than 100%.

 

[AirTC2016]

It's gotta be poorly worded. It's gotta mean you can release someone to a 9 or below after the original NCEPT draft if your facility is still green and the receiving 9 or below is less than 100%.

and by green you mean anything but red, right? SO’s facility is yellow so I’m just clarifying that this should qualify but I want to assume nothing with this process. Thank you.

 

[Move78]

My point is "between green facilities" makes no sense. So I'm assuming it means 'atleast green'. The losing facility being atleast green should be all that matters. If you're pumping a 9 or below to 100% projected it is in fact yellow on the receiving end. You have to be yellow to get to 100.

 

[Move78]

and by green you mean anything but red, right? SO’s facility is yellow so I’m just clarifying that this should qualify but I want to assume nothing with this process. Thank you.

You won't have to worry about being yellow anyway. If you're at a 6 and you want to go to another 6 then you'll basically be last in line to leave your facility without this new 9s and below rule. But if you can release 1 then one of your coworkers is going to get selected in the NCEPT and after that placement list outbound there's no shot you'll be yellow still or else you'd just be able to release 2 anyway.

 

[AirTC2016]

I think there is a chance no one else leaves. So I’m hoping we are still eligible to release 1 because no one gets picked up.

 

[MJ]

My point is "between green facilities" makes no sense. So I'm assuming it means 'atleast green'. The losing facility being atleast green should be all that matters. If you're pumping a 9 or below to 100% projected it is in fact yellow on the receiving end. You have to be yellow to get to 100.

I agree with you. However, I'm saying not to underestimate the incompetence of these people. It may be worded exactly how they intended, meaning only green > green.

Also, while everyone is referring to green/yellow/red facility, remember there are TWO different, independent criteria which are coded: actual and projected. There was nothing mentioned specific to these, so the logical assumption would be both criteria "at least".

 

[LEAD004]

So without a cap... Whats to stop every single person that gets there to "fill your shoes" from putting in to N90 and top priority 12s and block you from going to a 8-10...

Edit. This is why I think there should be a minimum CPC at facility time before ERR can be filed.

Hats off to them if they want to go to N90, haha. I would be content with having to do X amount of time as a CPC before being able to ERR somewhere else. As far as it being based on when u have submitted your ERR paperwork- I'm not a fan. Based on seniority- also not a fan (there are many people at my facility that are months a part in seniority.. that's not really "senioirty" when you just so happened to get an earlier class date for the academy than someone else, haha. Having to do X amount of time as a CPC- that seems to be the most reasonable solution. Study hard, pass people up in training, certify.. you could potentially have a leg up on being able to get picked up on whatever ncept panel once u do your X amount of CPC time. Not to mention, you get a little more experience before moving on which I think could be beneficial.

 

[breakaway2000]

There is no "release, receive, or neither" rule. It is all predicated on your staffing level. I am not sure if it is still available, but there was a large map that showed all facilities along with current and projected staffing levels. This map had facilities color coded. What I "recall" had the CAT 1 green, CAT 2 orange, and below category as red. I haven't tried to find it in a while, so it could be gone. That is where I assume they get their "colors"

As with most of this process, there are continual amendments that are not publicly available. New facility priority list shows 0 for potential gains to any facility above the projected national average.
The verbiage on the NATCA site leaves a lot of unknowns. As others have stated 'green' makes no sense whatsoever. There are green facilities that aren't even cat 1 or 2. If there is additional consideration after the NCEPT run, that leads to a host of new questions.
1. Will 9 or below facilities that show 0 potential gains but are staffed between the national average and 100% be given a list to rank?
2. Will each facility be looked at in their original facility priority list order?
3. Will each facility be staffed to 100% prior to moving on to the next facility?
There's a lot of unknowns with the information shown on the facility priority list.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Just the fact that there is an "internal" SOP that we cannot access annoys me to no end. Thanks for the transparency NATCA/FAA.

 

[Move78]

As with most of this process, there are continual amendments that are not publicly available. New facility priority list shows 0 for potential gains to any facility above the projected national average.
The verbiage on the NATCA site leaves a lot of unknowns. As others have stated 'green' makes no sense whatsoever. There are green facilities that aren't even cat 1 or 2. If there is additional consideration after the NCEPT run, that leads to a host of new questions.
1. Will 9 or below facilities that show 0 potential gains but are staffed between the national average and 100% be given a list to rank?
2. Will each facility be looked at in their original facility priority list order?
3. Will each facility be staffed to 100% prior to moving on to the next facility?
There's a lot of unknowns with the information shown on the facility priority list.

All valid questions and you'd think all 3 answers should obviously be yes. I'm pretty sure I've annoyed my RVP with constant questions but this is something that we need to know so we should get this info.

 

[that1guy]

what about ppl bidding high priority facilities, then turning the offers down to block ppl from leaving?

 

[Stinger]

what about ppl bidding high priority facilities, then turning the offers down to block ppl from leaving?

Would be nice if they become ineligible for an ERR for a full year.

 

[rugbydog11]

what about ppl bidding high priority facilities, then turning the offers down to block ppl from leaving?

If you turn down an offer, you should'nt be allowed to put another one in for a year, and you pay the person(s) you block half of your salary.

 

[breakaway2000]

what about ppl bidding high priority facilities, then turning the offers down to block ppl from leaving?

There is nothing in place to prevent this and is a massive oversight in the system.

 

[that1guy]

yeah theyer screwing over their coworkers, the facilities that think they are getting someone and someone else that missed out cuz they took up a slot...

 

[Andrew]

yeah theyer screwing over their coworkers, the facilities that think they are getting someone and someone else that missed out cuz they took up a slot...

Had this exact scenario at my facility for this panel, I actually asked him if would seriously consider if he'd accept or not and if not to remove them, at the time we could only release 1 but now we can release 2 so it all worked out since he left his paperwork in.