Yall had an NCEPT D10 selection, checks notes… 9 years ago pffffffff. Yeah you’re getting screwed. Hopefully you’ll get some new AG placements? Or a new release policy. Or any other changes that can help that have been on the docket for years
February (Q2) 2025
- Thread starter S.T.O.P.
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Haha!
Yeah I don’t know man. I been trying to leave here for 8 years. There ain’t no releases happening from here. I’m extremely bitter about NCEPT. If I knew I’d be stuck here all my career, I would have done something else. I wouldn’t be ATC
SquawkHijack
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First of all thank you for the info in your response brother. There’s a lot in that I truly didn’t know.
As for low level up/downs releasing, your graphic seems to show the up/downs releasing people as a 37% minority, and that still includes FPL 8-12 as well as the 4-7s so I’m sure it’s less than than that. The graphic plots the data by facility and there’s A LOT more low levels than mids/highs out there. Low level up/downs are in a completely different position (as we all know) because they’re almost all in undesired areas and still have a longer training time like up/downs tend to have.
And I definitely understand that 8/9s had it worse than the rest of us, but, there’s zero harm in letting CPCs go there that have ERRs on file. They aren’t the majority by any means and I know that. But they’re out there. Why is NATCA embracing this agency logic of letting everyone be stuck if 8/9s are in bad shape? I do love that we have the 8/9 gaining facility NCEPT rules now, that was a great move! But sending AGs to 8/9s? That’s straight up wrong for those of us who’ve certified and want to move up.
It’s 37% of the 4-7 moves. 770 total. 770 is a lot. The worst part about that graph is absurd lean towards 4-7 tower only. A huge problem.
There is harm when staffing levels only allow a certain number of movements. For example if you only have 100 excess controllers throughout the system (and “excess” is a real stretch here cuz I’m referring to above 85% which is is still a deficit by definition). But if you only got 100 and the 10-12s need 500 then even if you move 0 into 8/9 you’re still under feeding 10-12 at an unsustainable rate. There’s also lacking demand at scale for 8/9 unfortunately. And for those of you that think 85 is too high a threshold, and there’s a lot of you, and maybe it is, say that to the 85.1 building BUEs on 6 day weeks that are still losing outbounds. There’s 2 sides.
8/9 up to 100 in round 2 was hugely valuable and should have never gone away in 2019.
corn4ahead
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Somenewguy
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Feel for you. It sucks to just be stuck somewhere. And getting a 2 year release date gives a lot more hope for the future than "no" every six months.
There are a lot of things about NCEPT that are an improvement over the old system, but NCEPT works worse and worse as the national staffing goes down. The fact that someone can have multiple NCEPT transfers and a NEST before this guy can leave OKC is unfair and the union should be working harder to make it more fair.
Best we can do is talk about equipment.
Apparently, anybody that expected our pay and benefits to keep up with inflation and the industry is just “a Reddit Crybaby”.
When JD Vance is leading an early poll, I’m sure we’ll look to extend past 2029, and the same Reps can come talk down to all of us for expecting our Union to fight for pay and benefits. But apparently we’re idiots for asking for that out of a labor union.
If the process forced you to have to move to a mid level facility before going to a 10/11/12 then it would be a better process, so it is flawed. You would have fewer washouts at the high level facilities and shorter training times which equals more certified controllers working. Instead of spending 3+ years training then washing out and spending another couple years training before trying to move back to a 12 and spending more time in training.
Also 8s and 9s usually aren't in that undesirable places to live. The reason the members aren't putting in for them is because the only way to make a solid career in ATC is to get to a 10/11/12. If we got a raise that we deserve and 8s and 9s were paid what higher level facilities are making now you would have members put in for them and wait to eventually go up to a higher level. As of now though if you go to an 8 or 9 you are in purgatory when it comes to transferring and you aren't making the money you deserve so why would people put in for them?
Somenewguy
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Nobody wants to go to a mid level and get stuck because NCEPT has stifled movement in mid-levels.
8 / 9 Towers are nearly always in the heart of a metro. Sure you can live in the slums but I prefer decent housing and schools for my kids.
We’ve had two people since I been here wash out, go to Lower level facilities and they are now at 12s. It’s aggravating
The current system moves people that shouldn't be moved.
Example:
Wash out of a 7
Check out at a 4
Within months, get picked up at an 11
This cycle wastes a bunch of resources and sucks for a bunch of people. Facilities need to be able to say no to picking people up that have no hope of certification.
This
Actually the best we can do is a 5% paycut fers tax. If the country votes republican you’re not getting labor gains. Period. They want you to just work harder for less money. Universally. And be proud of it.
Mr.Tickles
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How many labor gains did we get in air traffic during the most labor friendly administration ever?
SquawkHijack
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IIRC our braindead NATCA leadership also chose not to open up and negotiate with said administration when we had a solid chance to in ‘21. So in any case, this isn’t just about politicians and we have absolutely no idea how negotiations with the Biden admin would’ve gone because we didn’t even try. 🤷🏼♂️
Just another example of too many seething union leaders and A114 scammers always putting their frontline workforce LAST because of their fear of losing their kushy official time and perks.
sending you a message now.
None, because we didn't have a chance to.
Rinaldi's decision to extend in 2021 was the dumbest move possible. As best I can remember what I've heard from various people, they had been in talks with the Agency about extending since before the November 2020 elections because they were scared of another four years of Trump, and rightly so. But then Biden won and Rinaldi didn't want to go back to the Agency and say "whoops, nevermind" because he thought that would use up goodwill, so he signed the extension in May. Freaking May. Biden hadn't even been POTUS for three months and Rinaldi threw away the opportunity to negotiate.
Now Santa was the chosen heir, nobody ran against him, and he jumped on the Rinaldi-extension press release saying he supported it. But then to his credit he did ask to open the Slate Book early, around this time last year I think it was, but the Agency told him no. Which they could do because of Rinaldi's extension.
But a bunch of mouthbreathers punished Santa for the extension anyway and voted him out. They voted Nick into office and what does Nick do? He grabs the opportunity to extend when Whitaker offers it as an out-the-door consolation prize right before Trump takes over. This extension was absolutely the right move and I'm glad he did it. Anyone who looks at what the Trump administration is doing right now—following Project 2025 to a tee, despite his claims that he didn't know anything about it—and thinks that we should be negotiating with them is insane. But it sucks major balls that we're going to be stuck with the Slate Book for ten years if not more.
I would be interested to know how many NATCA members voted for both Nick and Trump. Whole bunch of cognitive dissonance going on there. But then again there's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on with any fed employee voting for Trump.
corn4ahead
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I'm sure NATCA is doing a lot regarding pay behind the scene. We don't want to tip our hand at future negotiations with the F Hey Hey by posting online on public forums. 🙄
That’s what he’s referring to. We did try. We got exactly what we asked for. Paul’s extension had nothing to do with 114 details but keep hating inwards and making it worse.
None because we chose none
You would be whining had they not renegotiated. The incumbent rarely loses so the union expected Trump to win back then and not Biden. The contract never came open under Biden and the agency isn't going to negotiate out of the goodness of their heart.
If youre going to bitch nonstop then tell the whole story. At this point, I'm happy we renegotiated because we would be getting absolutely fucked right now.
Too many of you think you're special. You arent. This career field has tens of thousands waiting to get in and will replace you for cheaper. You will not get some large pay raise under this administration. You'll be lucky to get an annual raise other than the 1.6%. Start living in reality. You voted for Nick you voted for Trump. Now reap what you sow.
Downvote button at the bottom right. Let me see them tears.
Oh and why do you think the union is pushing for a staffing increase so much? New people are likely to join the union at OKC when they do their dumb little meet and greets. All of you leaving means nothing to them. They don't need to lobby for a pay raise because they (NATCA) don't actually care about any of us and will just get new union members by increasing staffing numbers.
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