Hardships

[Motodog]

The paperwork doesn't but the "stigma" does. Alot of controllers have an automatic bias against those that hardship but you do what's best for you.

Good answer. It’s the idea that if you cheat & lie/cut the line, vs a legit hardship, (which obviously happens), you carry that rep. In any career.

 

[CF]

The paperwork doesn't but the "stigma" does. Alot of controllers have an automatic bias against those that hardship but you do what's best for you.

Definitely true if it’s some shit like allergies but if you have to take care of a dying or disable parent or some shit then that’s totally legit. I don’t even get mad when someone bullshits a hardship because the FAA has made initial placements and transfers such a clown show. The only problem is when people abuse the process it increases the chances the FAA gets rid of it and then people who really need it get screwed.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Definitely true if it’s some shit like allergies but if you have to take care of a dying or disable parent or some shit then that’s totally legit. I don’t even get mad when someone bullshits a hardship because the FAA has made initial placements and transfers such a clown show. The only problem is when people abuse the process it increases the chances the FAA gets rid of it and then people who really need it get screwed.

The fact that all of you can just decide that one is more valid than the other is the bullshit part. Everyone has their own situation that has literally nothing to do with any of you, so shouldn’t matter in the slightest. Be mad at the FAA for not allowing people to either start or transfer where they want

 

[Phillytroll69]

The fact that all of you can just decide that one is more valid than the other is the bullshit part. Everyone has their own situation that has literally nothing to do with any of you, so shouldn’t matter in the slightest. Be mad at the FAA for not allowing people to either start or transfer where they want

Not only that-but having a whole panel now to meet and discuss validity-,my doctor said I was sick-but who decides if your sick enough. Someone needed to take care of a parent but somehow the committee found out another sibling lived in that town-after numerous doctors notes and even financial notes about it, determined the brother was the better option. Thanks

Not only that-but having a whole panel now to meet and discuss validity-,my doctor said I was sick-but who decides if your sick enough. Someone needed to take care of a parent but somehow the committee found out another sibling lived in that town-after numerous doctors notes and even financial notes about it, determined the brother was the better option. Thanks

To reply to myself I think the person was full of it also, but they showed me and they did have numerous documents validated and jumped through tons of hoops.
My point is they had everything, I think it should be auto approval upon validation

 

[Motodog]

To reply to myself I think the person was full of it also, but they showed me and they did have numerous documents validated and jumped through tons of hoops.
My point is they had everything, I think it should be auto approval upon validation

If the FAA would publish facilities choice list 2-3 weeks sooner (realize there are logistics problems here), put em in a pool & allow crossover, swap choices to those 2-3 (maybe more) classes, it would prevent multitudes of disgruntled people, hardship apps later, swaps and all the training/retraining that goes with that

 

[Phillytroll69]

If the FAA would publish facilities choice list 2-3 weeks sooner (realize there are logistics problems here), put em in a pool & allow crossover, swap choices to those 2-3 (maybe more) classes, it would prevent multitudes of disgruntled people, hardship apps later, swaps and all the training/retraining that goes with that

Are you new-that makes sense so why would it ever be like that

And not to dishearten anyone but call the eap and ask them to help you find an apartment-its a joke. AG pay in 50% of the country isn't enough-in some counties you qualify for section 8 housing. I got told to look on craigslist for me +3 and that some basement apartments were nice, if my wife could work.
If they are gonna make you move anywhere at least set up a trailer park when you have 3-5? Days to get anywhere

 

[Dolan]

If the FAA would publish facilities choice list 2-3 weeks sooner (realize there are logistics problems here), put em in a pool & allow crossover, swap choices to those 2-3 (maybe more) classes, it would prevent multitudes of disgruntled people, hardship apps later, swaps and all the training/retraining that goes with that

Honestly, what you're saying sounds like it *should* be the case but I would bet the FAA would claim that it doesn't. Nowadays people will hardship somewhere they don't want to be but that has good staffing so that they can ERR where they want. Also because they just want to leave where they are and aren't terribly picky about where they'll be. I'm sure the number of people who hardship somewhere and ERR out very soon after certification is quite high - I work with a couple at least

 

[ChuckNovember]

If the FAA would publish facilities choice list 2-3 weeks sooner (realize there are logistics problems here), put em in a pool & allow crossover, swap choices to those 2-3 (maybe more) classes, it would prevent multitudes of disgruntled people, hardship apps later, swaps and all the training/retraining that goes with that

Agree with the fact that initial placement needs to be fixed (somehow). Maybe top 3 go anywhere? Maybe the old ways where you get hired knowing what facility you're on your way to? Continually-open OTS bids for hard to staff facilities? Whatever it is, it needs to change. Esp. since half the time, the staffing people at OKC are just making stuff up as they go.

A lot senior controllers stigmatize hardships and even ERRs because they have no clue how placement works. I told to a friend who is almost eligible for retirement that I had in for an ERR and his immediate response was "Well if you didn't want to live here you should've done better in OKC" I explained to him that I finished top of my class and my current facility was the best from the list and he was SHOCKED at how it worked/how little choices people get. Turns out this dude didnt even GO to OKC, he went to the MARC school back in the day for anyone that knows about that.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

If the FAA would publish facilities choice list 2-3 weeks sooner (realize there are logistics problems here), put em in a pool & allow crossover, swap choices to those 2-3 (maybe more) classes, it would prevent multitudes of disgruntled people, hardship apps later, swaps and all the training/retraining that goes with that

Hell if I were king for a day I'd just do USA jobs direct hire at least for all the smaller places no one wants to go. I'm sure there's plenty of people in commuting range of some of these smaller facilities who have no want to leave their local area, yet would love a high paying gov job with good benefits, and probably never leave. I'm sure Robert (long E, soft t) lecroix down in the bayou would love to make 85k a year at LCH and never have the urge to get his paperwork in to D01 2 days after he certifies.

Hell you could do the same thing for everything and just get rid of the err process altogether. Need bodies? Put up a listing. Want the job? Apply for it. Simple as that. For the high level facilities just make it in agency experience required. Boom, you've created a pipeline.

Sure have a "I'll go anywhere, I just love airplanez and headsets compliment my facial structure and am willing to roll the dice" bid for the really thirsty people, but I don't see what is so hard about letting people just apply to the places they want to be. They've overcomplicated the entire thing imho by doing it the way they do.

 

[ChuckNovember]

Also in my defense of the "staffing people are just making it up as they go" statement, the class ahead of me in OKC (barely) passed 2 out of 18, and instead of their slots falling to our class as their own rules would dictate, they "felt bad" for them, so allowed them to pick from all 18 slots. They both picked ZHU, despite neither of them being from there, over two guys in my class born and raised in TX.

 

[BDUB]

What about when NCEPT doesn’t let a small facility pick anybody up but two weeks later they get someone from academy. A place I’d be dying to go to just to get back home….maybe a rule that if NCEPT paperwork is in for a facility that is due to get accademy students they get sent so the persons facility that has put a few years in the agency so they can get out of their facility and the new hire doesn’t go to someones dream facility….. ??

 

[axman]

What about when NCEPT doesn’t let a small facility pick anybody up but two weeks later they get someone from academy. A place I’d be dying to go to just to get back home….maybe a rule that if NCEPT paperwork is in for a facility that is due to get accademy students they get sent so the persons facility that has put a few years in the agency so they can get out of their facility and the new hire doesn’t go to someones dream facility….. ??

I have been saying this for years to people!

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

How many people work their entire career at one facility?

 

[axman]

How many people wouldn’t get desperate and slingshot to XYZ facility to just get out of theirs, to then go somewhere else?
If you go where you want your, statistically, going to be willing to sit there longer until you can go to another place.

How many people work their entire career at one facility?

 

[Mike Kilo]

What about when NCEPT doesn’t let a small facility pick anybody up but two weeks later they get someone from academy. A place I’d be dying to go to just to get back home….maybe a rule that if NCEPT paperwork is in for a facility that is due to get accademy students they get sent so the persons facility that has put a few years in the agency so they can get out of their facility and the new hire doesn’t go to someones dream facility….. ??

Half the people here want to close your home facility thinking that it will fix staffing throughout the NAS. May as well stay where you’re at!

 

[Acquired Taste]

Hell if I were king for a day I'd just do USA jobs direct hire at least for all the smaller places no one wants to go. I'm sure there's plenty of people in commuting range of some of these smaller facilities who have no want to leave their local area, yet would love a high paying gov job with good benefits, and probably never leave. I'm sure Robert (long E, soft t) lecroix down in the bayou would love to make 85k a year at LCH and never have the urge to get his paperwork in to D01 2 days after he certifies.

Hell you could do the same thing for everything and just get rid of the err process altogether. Need bodies? Put up a listing. Want the job? Apply for it. Simple as that. For the high level facilities just make it in agency experience required. Boom, you've created a pipeline.

Sure have a "I'll go anywhere, I just love airplanez and headsets compliment my facial structure and am willing to roll the dice" bid for the really thirsty people, but I don't see what is so hard about letting people just apply to the places they want to be. They've overcomplicated the entire thing imho by doing it the way they do.

There's really no good logistical way to make it work with the current hiring process. It takes almost a minimum of 1 year from the time you apply to the time you could maybe get an academy date, but small facilities need bodies right now. There staffing in a year is going to be very different, possibly dramatically much worse in a year. They can't afford to wait. And what if the local facility needs 2 inbounds and they hire them on the local bid and they both wash at the academy? Then you have to start the hiring process of hiring 2 more? So maybe the ATM compensates and tries to hire 4 more instead and they all pass and then the facility becomes super overstaffed and no one leaves because they're all locals. I'm not saying that they shouldn't strive to improve the process because right now it definitely sucks, but local bids aren't the solution. The one thing the current system is good at is sending warm bodies where they are most needed at the current moment, which satisfies the goals of the agency and is therefore unlikely to change any time soon.

 

[jamisjockey]

There's really no good logistical way to make it work with the current hiring process. It takes almost a minimum of 1 year from the time you apply to the time you could maybe get an academy date, but small facilities need bodies right now. There staffing in a year is going to be very different, possibly dramatically much worse in a year. They can't afford to wait. And what if the local facility needs 2 inbounds and they hire them on the local bid and they both wash at the academy? Then you have to start the hiring process of hiring 2 more? So maybe the ATM compensates and tries to hire 4 more instead and they all pass and then the facility becomes super overstaffed and no one leaves because they're all locals. I'm not saying that they shouldn't strive to improve the process because right now it definitely sucks, but local bids aren't the solution. The one thing the current system is good at is sending warm bodies where they are most needed at the current moment, which satisfies the goals of the agency and is therefore unlikely to change any time soon.

Direct hire previous experience on bids to specific small facilities.
That would help fix so many problems.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

There's really no good logistical way to make it work with the current hiring process. It takes almost a minimum of 1 year from the time you apply to the time you could maybe get an academy date, but small facilities need bodies right now. There staffing in a year is going to be very different, possibly dramatically much worse in a year. They can't afford to wait. And what if the local facility needs 2 inbounds and they hire them on the local bid and they both wash at the academy? Then you have to start the hiring process of hiring 2 more? So maybe the ATM compensates and tries to hire 4 more instead and they all pass and then the facility becomes super overstaffed and no one leaves because they're all locals. I'm not saying that they shouldn't strive to improve the process because right now it definitely sucks, but local bids aren't the solution. The one thing the current system is good at is sending warm bodies where they are most needed at the current moment, which satisfies the goals of the agency and is therefore unlikely to change any time soon.

Again, you can still have national go anywhere bids to fill those holes when there's an immediate need, like a washout or whatever, but you typically know when people are gonna retire give or take a year or two, most people are getting one year release dates etc.... It's not rocket science, put out a bid. and the fact that the ENTIRETY of the hiring process needs streamlining in regards to timeframe is a wholly different can of worms than facility placement.

Facility placement and new hire onboarding has been a mess for years and years, long before ncept, long before the dumb ass way they assign facilites to new hires now. This isn't a new problem.

I'm not saying it wouldn't require blowing up and rebuilding portions of the current system, and no, no system is gonna be perfect, but sometimes that's what is needed. It wouldn't be an immediate fix, but long term I think it would be better.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Back on track to hardships-would anyone be interested in a template/form/ instructions I can probably whip something up

 

[GulfCharlie]

I went DOD just to avoid this… I start Tuesday and literally will work on the beach ✌️ Deuces.