I don't know why people are so upset about facilities that can't select 0. If you move them to the bottom it changes nothing for the 10-12s anyway. They just get skipped anyway. But they have to have it that way cuz the <10s get picks in round 2. There's plenty to complain about but when you bitch about an irrelevant aspect you just show your hand that you're searching for things to cry about
June 2018
- Thread starter ATC_av8er
- Start date
Highinthesky
Member
- Messages
- 38
Thank you, I'll do that. Do you happen to know when they have those lists ranked by? And does the Ncept panel always go by the list, or is there a chance they could just make a choice without caring about the list from the facility? I know in the past I have seen our atm not get her picks, but I didnt know if that was because they were taken already or what.
What you mean to say is "What's frustrating about NCEPT is I'm not getting what I want out of it." Which is a legitimate complaint for you but an irrelevant complaint when the goal of NCEPT is to staff the NAS. This is not a unique concept, most things get very dehumanized when you take them to scale. I'm not the a huge NCEPT fan because it has some inherent flaws that are probably unfixable. But I'm on this board defending the program way too often because you guys are complaining about the wrong stuff.
Competing in house for an array of different career goals that should be uneffecting to each other is a problem.
Vacancies that have NCEPT applicants but are filled by other placements are a problem.
There are problems.
It's also way more effective than the old system.
Dontbotherme
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 876
Best things they can do is limit moves to no more than four levels at a time, have a ban time period for those selected who elect not to move (say four panels), and send all new hires to level 4-8 facilities.
They said there's no interest in a level cap. I'm sure it's in part because the EWRs that need 8 bodies will get 0 applicants from level 8s etc.
I think there would be a lot of support for a ban for declining an offer and also support for making 12 month CPC a requirement like it is on bids.
ajmezz
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 858
All new hires should be level 4-7 (terminal obviously) and those facilities should be staffed 100% + 2 so it could be a revolving door instead of an open/close situation we currently have. Maybe implement a certain time frame of cpc before being eligible to err out? A level cap could definitely help out the mid level facility cpc's (8/9/10's) move up since there would be a continuous flow upwards. Changes can be made. Just might not ever happen or take a while. From what I hear the ncept has been improving over time. Just takes some patience.
breakaway2000
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 1,693
NCEPT is a computer run program and will follow the managers ranking list exactly. The only reason an ATM wouldn't of gotten the order of their picks previously is if the candidate was already selected or no longer eligible so they move down to the 2nd, 3rd, etc.
Highinthesky
Member
- Messages
- 38
Thank you, I really appreciate the help.
FYI I am at a Lvl 11, which is part of the problem. Because we are chronically understaffed this is the first panel since the creation of ncept that we can release someone. So I have not been following the past threads. So sorry if the questions have been answered but I wasn’t about to read through dozens of pages of past ncept threads to figure out what I needed to know. I have been reading as much as I could but didn’t understand why a facility would be ranked so high if they can’t pick anyone up. I don’t want to go to Atlanta just wanted to know why they would be ranked so high. There are dozens of us trying to get out and only 1 spot. So while I am willing to bid(and have bid) every facility in my hometown and my wife’s it doesn’t help if they are being ranked lower then the others trying to get out of here even though I have seniority on them by 5-10 years in most cases.
While it’s true i wasnt bitching about it, just trying to understand the process. My bitch is that cpcs from lvl 4-9 with little to no experience get selected over me with 10 years cpc at a lvl 11 who has both tower and Tracon ratings. That’s my bitch! The system is set up to help lower lvl facilities. No one comes to my facility and it take 2 1/2 years to cert and by the time they cert we have 2 that have retired so it’s not a very high likelihood that I will ever get out unless I do like all the other guys and “hardship”
Last edited:
- Messages
- 3,168
You know its a bad system when everyone thinks everyone else has it better...
This is starting to derail into an NCEPT debate. There's a thread for that, let's keep it out of this one.
breakaway2000
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 1,693
Understandable. Certainly the rough reality of the NCEPT as you climb toward being eligible. Without knowing where you're trying to get to, I can't speak to your potential odds this panel, but unfortunately, you're in a fairly unusual predicament. The majority of higher level terminal facilities have been eligible for so long that there's very little movement exiting those facilities. Simply put, with a large amount of people trying to leave your facility, the majority of people they'll be competing with will be from 7 and below facilities, making it harder for you to remain eligible when it comes time for the facility you desire to select. However, the "worst" is behind you. Now that you facility's CPC % has risen high enough to be eligible to release and with a healthy amount of trainees behind you, your facility should remain eligible to release each panel for the foreseeable future.
Sorry not trying to derail, just a disgruntled old fart! I am actually very thankful for the site as it has way more info then what I can get outta my facrep.
I am at HCF, which I am sure is a huge part of the problem. Tons of people want to "live in Hawaii" but when the harsh reality of the cost of living sets in they change their minds. We can release 1 this panel should be able to release 2 next panel as we have 2 about ready to cert but after that we start loosing to retirement again without anyone close to cert and thats also assuming that no one take a sup job which a lot of them have started applying for since it seems its the only way outta here. I am trying to get to SLC but all 3 of the facilities are ranked either extremely low or cant pick anyone up this round. My wife has family in Vegas so thats the other area, but when I called my HR rep to verify my ERRs they only had LAS and not L30 so I will admit I screwed up there not verifying in time to resubmit.
If you don't lose a body out the door before late july then the 2 new certifications will possibly result in a release of 3 next panel. It's not a 1 for 1 type of relationship. If your AOB can lose 1 now and you get 2 more certs then your AOB can lose 3 next time. That doesn't guarantee 3 next time or even 1 for that matter because it also depends on how far above 85% your proj is at when the ppt that posts at the end of july.
Okay now I am confused, that’s not how I understood and how our facrep explained it. For arguments sake let’s take projections out so I make sure I understand or say we are projected 100%. So fully staffed we are 83 cpcs so say the national average is 82% if we have 69 we can release one. They get a release date of June of 19, next ncept we have 71 cpc’s including the 1 that will be released June of 19, so the we could release 3 in that case even though we will be losing 1 June 19, then next ncept we still have 71 because no one has left so we could release another 3?
Then second question is how does projected come into play. Can you only release as many as will keep you above the 85%?
Last edited:
That's your other problem. LAS, L30, SLC, and ZLC are all very desirable facilities. S56 less so - you might have a chance of getting there eventually. SLC and ZLC have got to be the easiest 10's in the NAS or at least I can't find anything that compares. All are high level facs in low COL areas as well - a surefire indicator of somewhere a lot of people want to get to.
Yes AOB is actual on board staffing down to the exact day. If bob retires tomorrow he's in your AOB today. So someone getting picked in June is irrelevant for August AOB unless he leaves immediately. So if you're at 71 for August your AOB can take 3 losses in August NCEPT. That 1 loss from June NCEPT will go into PPT as an outbound and will negatively effect your proj.
And yes your proj can allow release all the way down to 85%.
Yeah if you have less than 3 out the door losses for the remainder of the year then you're only worry is projected. I think HCF has 2 picks here so you should get 2 inbounds to bump it up next ppt. Those gains will be countered if anyone signs a TOL for a bid plus your 1 loss on June NCEPT. Hypothetically, if your staffing were to remain exactly the same month to month you do see a small increase in projected staffing column because the project retirements column is a number that slowly decreases each calendar month until the end of the year. Regardless of actual retirements.
Also the inbounds will increase your projected at a smaller value than the outbounds will decrease it. Because they go in as a trainee so they count as a fraction determined by your training success rate but an outbound is a full body out of the projected.