May (Q2) 2021

Peter Gibbons

Legendary Member
Messages
2,051
I'm sorry but I just don't think this is as big of an issue as some make it to be. It's not like this is a bait and switch. You know when you apply how the hiring process goes. You know it will be a long drawn out process in which you have multiple opportunities to be fired. You know when you apply that you could potentially move anywhere. You agreed to all of this when you applied. If you want a 9-5 job with weekends and holidays off in your hometown then don't apply. Go work at your local airport as a baggage handler if you just have to be in aviation.

This is how the aviation industry, especially air traffic is. Brand new hires suffer the most because we don't even know if you will certify. Core 30 airports and centers get the focus because they run the most traffic and the most publicly visible traffic. But life isn't perfect and sunny all the time just because you got to your home facility or a high level facility. Plenty of things still suck there too. Every facility has issues. Most controllers have something to complain about. Much of this will never change.
People agree to it because that's thier only option. That doesn't make it a good plan, and anyone can recognize the pitfalls for new employees as it sits now. You can't seriously tell me the current way of doing things has any benefit whatsoever when it comes to facility turnover that affects all of us when it comes to mobility or nas health for that matter.

I'm at my hometown facility and I agree everywhere has problems. That's not my point. My point is some of those problems are very fixable, but the industry, and the faa in particular in this instance know they can get away with not fixing it because people in the aviation industry tend to make bigger sacrifices than most others in different fields because they love being in the field and employers take advantage of that.

It’s hard to have regard for employee morale when the employees themselves are extremely impulsive and do what they want when they want without regard for overall implications of the shift, staff, facility. Yea more attention could be paid, by throwing money at the problem, but n90/zny proved that to be wrong.

ultimately the people of moline, don’t care about staying there and don’t care about what they leave behind. Certainly Managers don’t give a fuck about what they leave behind also. That’s a stepping stone for them. They want to leave also. Leaving behind a staff that wants out once they realize they can make more money doing about the same amount of work elsewhere.
Yes people generally want to advance thier careers. That's a given. Who is likely to spend more time facility hopping till they find that perfect fit for them (be it more money,, location whatever)though, and which of these situations is better for cpc staffing nationwide?

Controller A, who is from Atlanta, who has aspirations of working at A80, gets assigned to Napa Valley. He isn't used to the high cost of living, is thousands of miles from all his family and friends, can't afford an oven box inside of an hour from his facility, and generally finds wine culture and the people surrounding it stuffy and out of touch, thus making most of the outside work activities and people he's now surrounded by annoying as fuck to him. He just wants out, and is willing to take anything at this point just to get away from APC where he stands a chance of someday getting back to where he wants and isn't miserable outside of work, and he's got to hop on whatever the ncept gods give him thru dynamic decisions or miss the boat until the next time APC can release someone, which will be who knows when.

Or

Controller B, who is also from Atlanta, but has career aspirations of working on the west coast. He gets assigned to Columbus Georgia, or Knoxville or whatever. Yes, he wants to move out west and enjoy the beach life and high taxes, but in the meantime being in familiar surroundings and just a few hours from his previous life is alright. he is still just a few hours from all his relations and acquaintances, so its not a big deal to make a weekend trip back. He's generally happy, though yes he wants to move up and out to the best coast, he's fine biding his time to get what he wants.

That's not even including Controller C, who really just wants a good paying fed job with benefits near his home that doesn't include delivering boxes and envelopes. That dude has no reason at all to have to move halfway across the country if he's just trying to homestead back anyways.

So really, even tossing out employee happiness it doesn't make sense.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
7,233
Yes people generally want to advance thier careers. That's a given. Who is likely to spend more time facility hopping till they find that perfect fit for them (be it more money,, location whatever)though, and which of these situations is better for cpc staffing nationwide?

Controller A, who is from Atlanta, who has aspirations of working at A80, gets assigned to Napa Valley. He isn't used to the high cost of living, is thousands of miles from all his family and friends, can't afford an oven box inside of an hour from his facility, and generally finds wine culture and the people surrounding it stuffy and out of touch, thus making most of the outside work activities and people he's now surrounded by annoying as fuck to him. He just wants out, and is willing to take anything at this point just to get away from APC where he stands a chance of someday getting back to where he wants and isn't miserable outside of work, and he's got to hop on whatever the ncept gods give him thru dynamic decisions or miss the boat until the next time APC can release someone, which will be who knows when.

Or

Controller B, who is also from Atlanta, but has career aspirations of working on the west coast. He gets assigned to Columbus Georgia, or Knoxville or whatever. Yes, he wants to move out west and enjoy the beach life and high taxes, but in the meantime being in familiar surroundings and just a few hours from his previous life is alright. he is still just a few hours from all his relations and acquaintances, so its not a big deal to make a weekend trip back. He's generally happy, though yes he wants to move up and out to the best coast, he's fine biding his time to get what he wants.

That's not even including Controller C, who really just wants a good paying fed job with benefits near his home that doesn't include delivering boxes and envelopes. That dude has no reason at all to have to move halfway across the country if he's just trying to homestead back anyways.

So really, even tossing out employee happiness it doesn't make sense.
I don’t think they need to force people to their home either. If conbtroller b wants to go west let them put that on his/her/their application
 

Peter Gibbons

Legendary Member
Messages
2,051
I don’t think they need to force people to their home either. If conbtroller b wants to go west let them put that on his/her/their application
Again that's fine. Give them lists, but do it more than 3 days before thier report date, and if there's an option for them to opt out to stay close to home if they so choose, make it available if there's an opening. Still filling a hole on the Excell spreadsheet. Cedar rapids may not be anyone's dream facility but it's probably a lot better for someone from Iowa than El Paso or Spokane.

Option a) the dreaded list or option b) closest facility to your home of record that fits staffing and experience criteria doesn't seem like a big change to make.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
7,233
Again that's fine. Give them lists, but do it more than 3 days before thier report date, and if there's an option for them to opt out to stay close to home if they so choose, make it available if there's an opening. Still filling a hole on the Excell spreadsheet. Cedar rapids may not be anyone's dream facility but it's probably a lot better for someone from Iowa than El Paso or Spokane.
Yah. I agree. They need a head to toe change. And as I said in my other post they should stop overloading understaffed facilities with trainees they can’t get to for years. As long as you keep their pipeline full then let other facilities train up people. God forbid they get staffed towards 100 in other places
 

GulfBravoPapa

⭐SuperStar
Messages
1,573
Yah. I agree. They need a head to toe change. And as I said in my other post they should stop overloading understaffed facilities with trainees they can’t get to for years. As long as you keep their pipeline full then let other facilities train up people. God forbid they get staffed towards 100 in other places
Is there anyone not drowning in trainees right now?
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
2,539
How many of us really knew taking the position that it could be 8+ years to get back home though? Personally I took the position stoked to leave home for a few years and see the country. Now I’m years in and just stuck in BFE praying to go home. I think that’s often overlooked. Also, drives me absolutely bonkers that union reps, management, and senior controllers that have no interest in the NCEPT process because they don’t want to go anywhere look down on controllers trying to go back home. I’ve been told on multiple occasions by these people that have no clue how the process works that “Everything happens for a reason”. Like you’re shitting me 😂
I knew nothing about the job, union, transferring etc when I joined up. Happy to have an opportunity outside of construction with an actual future. Know too many 50 year old construction workers without shit to their name except a broken body. Even stuck at my first facility I would have been happier than back home. Luckily I was able to transfer before and after NCEPT. Took my third move to finally be where I want, even though I thought the precious ones were my “dream facility”.

Half the people bitching about getting or staying home have probably advocated closing facilities to “fix” the staffing problem. News flash, it wouldn’t change shit.
Hope home is next to a core 30 airport I guess…..
 

corn4ahead

Forum Sage
Messages
610
Was this a troll response? I've only been asked if I want it changed and that was as far as it went. Would the receiving facility or releasing facility make the call?
Call RVP. Mine said that it only changes for facilities that had small staffing numbers or something like that. Basically, if you going to a Z, too bad.
 

Super Salt

🍻🍻🍻
Staff member
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
997
Call RVP. Mine said that it only changes for facilities that had small staffing numbers or something like that. Basically, if you going to a Z, too bad.
Not going to a Z. My facility is fat-staffed. Where I'm going isn't exactly a black hole with their staffing. Guess I'll reach out to the RVP. Appreciate it.
 

CF

Assistant to the Regional Moderator
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
3,437
I had mine moved up. They started the process in early October without me doing anything to try and get it changed. I just got an amended FOL last week.
How far up? If you don’t mind.
 

slim

Trusted Contributor
Messages
223
Has anyone requested an earlier release date in the past couple months? If so, how did that work out for you?
 

Super Salt

🍻🍻🍻
Staff member
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
997
Has anyone requested an earlier release date in the past couple months? If so, how did that work out for you?
I did. My gaining facility told me the route to go, since my current is clueless.

It hasn’t worked out at all.
 
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