2021 Convention

[32andBelow]

Once they spilt up areas for releases and gains, then will they treat areas differently for pay purposes? The answer is yes, so would the workforce be okay with that? The answer is no.

Pick your poison.

Idk there’s way too many people assigned to some of these facilities anyways. Maybe they can exchange a lower number for better QOL for everyone else

 

[Bandit117]

Paging Rico

Still waiting to hear why it was advantageous to reup the contract with the Biden admin as in, than to try to make any changes. I’m genuinely curious what you have to say.

My guess is that by pushing a contract that expires in a possibly Republican admin, they will use that as leverage to push the rank and file to vote for whatever Democrat runs, as part of a larger afl-cio strategy

 

[CaptainObvious]

Once they spilt up areas for releases and gains, then will they treat areas differently for pay purposes? The answer is yes, so would the workforce be okay with that? The answer is no.

Pick your poison.

Come on now. They can’t even be bothered to validate traffic counts to upgrade facilities, you think they’d have the ability to do that for specific areas?

Paging Rico

Still waiting to hear why it was advantageous to reup the contract with the Biden admin as in, than to try to make any changes. I’m genuinely curious what you have to say.

My guess is that by pushing a contract that expires in a possibly Republican admin, they will use that as leverage to push the rank and file to vote for whatever Democrat runs, as part of a larger afl-cio strategy

You’re giving Lebovidge too much strategic credit

 

[32andBelow]

Come on now. They can’t even be bothered to validate traffic counts to upgrade facilities, you think they’d have the ability to do that for specific areas?



You’re giving Lebovidge too much strategic credit

Wouldn’t doing that give pay cuts to sups?

 

[Electricfence]

Idk there’s way too many people assigned to some of these facilities anyways. Maybe they can exchange a lower number for better QOL for everyone else

Again pick your poison. You are effectively choosing to screw over someone else just because you want it a different way. Some people QOL would be screwed because they like the money.

Imagine some area in ZoA becoming a 9. They already can’t afford to live there. And who decides to get the 9 vs the 12 area when they walk through the building? Or do they become individual buildings? They already can’t properly staff and train 311 facilities now you want to add another 300?

Like I said Pick your poison.

Come on now. They can’t even be bothered to validate traffic counts to upgrade facilities, you think they’d have the ability to do that for specific areas?



You’re giving Lebovidge too much strategic credit

There have been quite a few upgrades I’ve seen over the year pandemic aside. And managers and unions don’t meet deadlines, do paperwork wrong, can’t properly validate. It’s not just about blaming the boogie man panel

 

[32andBelow]

Again pick your poison. You are effectively choosing to screw over someone else just because you want it a different way. Some people QOL would be screwed because they like the money.

Imagine some area in ZoA becoming a 9. They already can’t afford to live there. And who decides to get the 9 vs the 12 area when they walk through the building? Or do they become individual buildings? They already can’t properly staff and train 311 facilities now you want to add another 300?

Like I said Pick your poison.

No I’m just picking to screw over people that aren’t even hired. I’m sick of seeing my coworkers not be able to ever go home when we are staffed to work 3 hours a day.

So what was done at the convention to improve our lives then?

 

[Electricfence]

No I’m just picking to screw over people that aren’t even hired. I’m sick of seeing my coworkers not be able to ever go home when we are staffed to work 3 hours a day.

So what was done at the convention to improve our lives then?

And you’d be screwing over people currently in by limiting the top of their pay scale if they aren’t at the top, hey now that I think of it, that’s you.

 

[32andBelow]

And you’d be screwing over people currently in by limiting the top of their pay scale if they aren’t at the top, hey now that I think of it, that’s you.

Lol how. So we have to have fake staffing numbers forever in case some people that want to transfer can actually one day be approved to transfer? not to mention there would be transfer opportunities cus people that have been stuck in their facilities forever would finally get a chance to go somewhere thus opening up spots

You didn’t answer my second question either

 

[Electricfence]

Lol how. So we have to have fake staffing numbers forever in case some people that want to transfer can actually one day be approved to transfer? not to mention there would be transfer opportunities cus people that have been stuck in their facilities forever would finally get a chance to go somewhere thus opening up spots

You didn’t answer my second question either

If you work at a 12 your pay band tops out at the 12 pay band But if you aren’t at the top, and are newly certified like you, and your area drops to say a 10 because they make the stupid decision to split areas, most likely you’ll keep your current pay because you fall within the new band, but the difference is ow you’ll top out at 10 pay and not the 12. Is that clear?

I have no idea what was done at the convention. I was merely pointing out that splitting areas will either screw over peoples pay as described above, or stay within the current system which you believe screws people over from transferring. If I had to guess more people would care about their pay then their transfer, not all cases but more. And you can see that by the 600 people applying for the high level facilities and not 2 to low level facilities because they want to go to Moses lake. Regardless of actual cost of living in that area people more often than not chase money over ideal location.

Edit:the local union also agreed to those numbers. But now to get them changed you might have to do some work and prove when and how often positions are open or combined and prove, because of lower traffic, that you need less people, highlighting that you actually work less traffic or the supes/cics dont split positions as often as you should. Get involved locally and tell me what happens

 

[Move78]

There have been quite a few upgrades I’ve seen over the year pandemic aside. And managers and unions don’t meet deadlines, do paperwork wrong, can’t properly validate. It’s not just about blaming the boogie man panel

He was talking about centers

Paging Rico

Still waiting to hear why it was advantageous to reup the contract with the Biden admin as in, than to try to make any changes. I’m genuinely curious what you have to say.

My guess is that by pushing a contract that expires in a possibly Republican admin, they will use that as leverage to push the rank and file to vote for whatever Democrat runs, as part of a larger afl-cio strategy

Are you saying they extended the contract to try and elect an unknown democratic candidate in 2024? That’s what you think they’re thinking about?

 

[Electricfence]

He was talking about centers

The same work involved in getting an upgrade applies even if he was.

 

[CaptainObvious]

The same work involved in getting an upgrade applies even if he was.

Since there isn’t even a validated TCI for the centers right now, there is literally no process for centers to upgrade.

 

[Bandit117]

Are you saying they extended the contract to try and elect an unknown democratic candidate in 2024? That’s what you think they’re thinking about?

As I recall, the slate book is now the law of the land through 2026? That would mean that renewal beyond that would be halfway through the term of whoever wins 2024. I’m not saying I believe it, but the best I can think of is that its a push give us reason to elect a democrat. I’m trying to rack my brain and come up with a good reason to reup the contract as it, without making a single change to it and that’s all I can think of and it’s a stretch. Which is why I’m so curious that Rico defended it, saying we don’t know what’s going on. I’m genuinely curious why with the most pro labor admin in office, who we helped put there, we wouldn’t cash in a few of our chips and try to get a better deal. I want to know what he has to say about it, whatever insider info he has, because I can’t come up with any reason that makes any real sense.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I say we make ZTL a 12 with the new TCI and watch ZSE drop to an 8.

 

[32andBelow]

I say we make ZTL a 12 with the new TCI and watch ZSE drop to an 8.

Just give everyone level 12 pay. Doesn’t matter they won’t even negotiate our contract

 

[BDUB]

As I recall, the slate book is now the law of the land through 2026? That would mean that renewal beyond that would be halfway through the term of whoever wins 2024. I’m not saying I believe it, but the best I can think of is that its a push give us reason to elect a democrat. I’m trying to rack my brain and come up with a good reason to reup the contract as it, without making a single change to it and that’s all I can think of and it’s a stretch. Which is why I’m so curious that Rico defended it, saying we don’t know what’s going on. I’m genuinely curious why with the most pro labor admin in office, who we helped put there, we wouldn’t cash in a few of our chips and try to get a better deal. I want to know what he has to say about it, whatever insider info he has, because I can’t come up with any reason that makes any real sense.

To be fair I’m just glad I’m not being given money that I have to pay back throughout 12 paychecks again if I don’t vote for the current sitting President….but I guess there’s still time for that ?

 

[32andBelow]

To be fair I’m just glad I’m not being given money that I have to pay back throughout 12 paychecks again if I don’t vote for the current sitting President….but I guess there’s still time for that ?

Omg that’s gonna end soon bless!

 

[Rico]

Paging Rico

Still waiting to hear why it was advantageous to reup the contract with the Biden admin as in, than to try to make any changes. I’m genuinely curious what you have to say.

My guess is that by pushing a contract that expires in a possibly Republican admin, they will use that as leverage to push the rank and file to vote for whatever Democrat runs, as part of a larger afl-cio strategy

Reason 1:
Despite the friendly administration, the agency has a duty to bargain on behalf of the government. There are plenty of provisions in the contract that the agency hates, regardless of political leanings. Example: bidding all the leave you will accrue.

Reason 2:
It costs a ton of money for the union to enter bargaining for a new contract that offers no guarantee of more money or better articles.

Reason 3:
If an unfriendly administration is elected, we are within the renewal period to extend the contract again before a new administration takes over.

Think about this, if the administration is so labor friendly, why didn’t they let the union extend the contract for 9+ years? They still have a responsibility to do what is best for the tax payers.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

 

[Bandit117]

Reason 1:
Despite the friendly administration, the agency has a duty to bargain on behalf of the government. There are plenty of provisions in the contract that the agency hates, regardless of political leanings. Example: bidding all the leave you will accrue.

Reason 2:
It costs a ton of money for the union to enter bargaining for a new contract that offers no guarantee of more money or better articles.

Reason 3:
If an unfriendly administration is elected, we are within the renewal period to extend the contract again before a new administration takes over.

Think about this, if the administration is so labor friendly, why didn’t they let the union extend the contract for 9+ years? They still have a responsibility to do what is best for the tax payers.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

That’s fair but bidding all the leave you accrue can prevent use it or lose it from becoming a thing. It’s in their interest to allow it.

It costs money, that’s why we pay dues. They have been saving big $$$ these last few years, put it to use for the membership. If negotiations are unsuccessful, renewal is still an option. Nothing ventured, nothing gained

Could they allow a 9 plus year extension? That seems like something I can’t see either party (Union or faa) going to the mat for that, Bc who knows what the future will hold

 

[atc12bsthrowaway]

Based off your comments you’re from possibly two areas in the building. Both of these areas are known for having a poor training culture and treating trainees like garbage. So don’t blame other areas for the short comings of yours.

Both the areas you could be in are also flooded with trainees right now. If you look at the bid lines on our website only one area could afford to give up people right now. While the total number of CPC and trainees for every area is almost the exact same. The only area that could give up people we both know won’t be doing so due to who the comes from that area.

Additionally you’re not even bringing up the fact that we have way too many controllers detailed out across the facility. I’d say it’s probably at least twenty if not more. Letting people leave for Sup positions hasn’t helped anything either.

On top of all that is the continuous starting and stopping of training we’ve had going on for months now. That’s just compounding everything.

Could one area stand to lose a few controllers? Absolutely. Is that the core of the issue of why so many areas are short staffed? Not at all.

Probably area B being the lowest staffed and completely insufferable, and then followed by area E being low staffed but still working their ass off with a decent attitude.