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I like what you’re saying but there’s no real way to fix it. They need bodies there now training. If they sent them to your facility, they train then you go. That’s 2 years late. At least.
August (Q4) 2022
- Thread starter Phanatical
- Start date
No. If there was a bid out that favored prior ARTCC for example, its reasonable to think many of those could be certified inside of 18 months, and usable after 4-6. There are always more ways to skin the cat, but they're prob too worried about threatening dissenters to think of these basic solutions.
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What about staffing at your current facility? The FAA is trying to cover up the shit they caused. There’s no way they are going to take someone from a short staff facility to go to ZJX. If anything, put a bid out on usajobs just like N90 and C90.
GulfBravoPapa
⭐SuperStar
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Exactly. This is what everyone keeps forgetting. Everyone is pissed all the Academy grads get to go to ZJX but which well staffed facility did you think they were going to come from? You want to rob Peter to pay Paul because ZJX is where you want to go... but that doesn't help the staffing st your facility and the delays "caused" by your facility and the six day work weeks at your facility. The Academy grads have to go somewhere and they're a number without subtracting from another already short staffed facility. And we know all the FAA cares about is numbers.
My facility is over 100% staffed and we have been the whole time I've been here. I've been trying to get to ZJX for years..... So this argument doesn't work. If I want to go and my facility can release. Why can't I go instead of being stuck at a low level facility? But the agency thinks it's best to fill the slots with academy grads instead of the 30+ CPC, that are at a facility that can release and want to be there.
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Everyone who has an ERR to ZJX, gets picked up. No caps. Everyone goes. All academy grads go to Oakland center so they can use the Zyrtec one departure to ZFW.
Mike Kilo
Legendary Member
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- 2,849
I’ve you’ve been over 100% and aren’t getting picked up anywhere it might be a you problem. Also you might try transferring to a different facility to get more experience and work on ZJX from there. Centers always get academy grads so this is barely anything out of the ordinary. Lots of places that are highly desired as well such as Dallas, Houston, Miami etc. Most center people I’ve talked to would rather train someone new instead of unlearning terminal habits.
Dates and rules out:
August NCEPT temporary modifications
Facilities are either designated as “gaining” or “releasing” facilities for each round.
Round 1
• Releasing facility must be at or above 85% current % CPC to Target (column L of the PPT) and at or above 85% Projected % to Target (column AA of the PPT)
• Releases stop when the facility drops below 85% Current or Projected % to Target
• Gaining facility must be below the Projected National Average (top of column AA of the
PPT)*
• The order of gaining facilities will be based on the most recent decision lens agreement**
• Selections for a single facility will not exceed ten (10) during this panel
Round 2
• Releasing facility must be an ATC-4 through ATC-7 that is currently at or above 90% Current % CPC to Target and at or above 100% Projected % to Target
• Releases stop when the facility drops below 90% Current or 100% Projected % to Target
• Gaining facilities will be considered only from the ATC-8/9s and may be filled until
selection reach a Projected % to Target of 100%
• The order of gaining facilities will be based on the most recent decision lens agreement**
• Gaining facility Trainee to Total Controller ratio is less than 30%
The panel reserves the right to address extraordinary circumstances on an as needed basis. *Projected National Average percentage will be published in the PPT on 08/03/2022
**Decision lens is part of NCEPT data execution on 08/04/2022 Releases
NCEPT Timeline
• Monday, 25 July – ERR submission deadline
• Friday, 29 July – Final day for Facilities to update staffing in SWB
• Tuesday, 2 August – HR Staffing Workbook entries completed
• Wednesday, 3 August – Facility Priority Placement Tool
• Thursday, 4 August – NCEPT data executed
• Monday, 8 August – HR resume upload begins
• Friday, 12 August – HR resume upload complete
• Monday, 15 August – Manager Ranking List published (Opened)
• Friday, 19 August – Manager Rankings completed (Closed)
• Monday, 22 August – P21 prepares data for NCEPT board
• Tuesday, 23 August – NCEPT convenes/adjourns
Category 1: Release dates shall be within three (3) months of selection, or at the election of the employee no later than six (6) months.
Category 2: Release dates shall be within twelve (12) months of selection.
Post NCEPT Selection Meeting Timeline
4th Quarter (August) NCEPT Selection Dates:
• NCEPT meeting adjourns August 23rd
TOL sent to employees no later than September 7, 2022 (two weeks)
• Clock starts August 24, 2022
Category 1 Three month release date
• November 21, 2022 PP25
Category 2 One Year Release Date
• August 28, 2023 PP18
August NCEPT temporary modifications
Facilities are either designated as “gaining” or “releasing” facilities for each round.
Round 1
• Releasing facility must be at or above 85% current % CPC to Target (column L of the PPT) and at or above 85% Projected % to Target (column AA of the PPT)
• Releases stop when the facility drops below 85% Current or Projected % to Target
• Gaining facility must be below the Projected National Average (top of column AA of the
PPT)*
• The order of gaining facilities will be based on the most recent decision lens agreement**
• Selections for a single facility will not exceed ten (10) during this panel
Round 2
• Releasing facility must be an ATC-4 through ATC-7 that is currently at or above 90% Current % CPC to Target and at or above 100% Projected % to Target
• Releases stop when the facility drops below 90% Current or 100% Projected % to Target
• Gaining facilities will be considered only from the ATC-8/9s and may be filled until
selection reach a Projected % to Target of 100%
• The order of gaining facilities will be based on the most recent decision lens agreement**
• Gaining facility Trainee to Total Controller ratio is less than 30%
The panel reserves the right to address extraordinary circumstances on an as needed basis. *Projected National Average percentage will be published in the PPT on 08/03/2022
**Decision lens is part of NCEPT data execution on 08/04/2022 Releases
NCEPT Timeline
• Monday, 25 July – ERR submission deadline
• Friday, 29 July – Final day for Facilities to update staffing in SWB
• Tuesday, 2 August – HR Staffing Workbook entries completed
• Wednesday, 3 August – Facility Priority Placement Tool
• Thursday, 4 August – NCEPT data executed
• Monday, 8 August – HR resume upload begins
• Friday, 12 August – HR resume upload complete
• Monday, 15 August – Manager Ranking List published (Opened)
• Friday, 19 August – Manager Rankings completed (Closed)
• Monday, 22 August – P21 prepares data for NCEPT board
• Tuesday, 23 August – NCEPT convenes/adjourns
Category 1: Release dates shall be within three (3) months of selection, or at the election of the employee no later than six (6) months.
Category 2: Release dates shall be within twelve (12) months of selection.
Post NCEPT Selection Meeting Timeline
4th Quarter (August) NCEPT Selection Dates:
• NCEPT meeting adjourns August 23rd
TOL sent to employees no later than September 7, 2022 (two weeks)
• Clock starts August 24, 2022
Category 1 Three month release date
• November 21, 2022 PP25
Category 2 One Year Release Date
• August 28, 2023 PP18
Then those bue’s who aren’t being offered growth in their career should be given a discounted rate by the union since they are unable to help and are most likely not going anywhere. Say .5%. Nobody should be paying maximum union benefits for minimal opportunity. How is it the bue’s fault that the facility is understaffed. I can assure you no other union would allow non union members to take the jobs of union members. That’s where the whole concept of SENIORITY comes in.
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- BWI Baltimore Tower
Round 2
• Releasing facility must be an ATC-4 through ATC-7 that is currently at or above 90% Current % CPC to Target and at or above 100% Projected % to Target
• Releases stop when the facility drops below 90% Current or 100% Projected % to Target
• Gaining facilities will be considered only from the ATC-8/9s and may be filled until
selection reach a Projected % to Target of 100%
^Obviously this is the biggest new thing. Very interesting, I had heard a level cap was not being considered. It's not a blanket level cap but possibly a fair middle ground?
• Releasing facility must be an ATC-4 through ATC-7 that is currently at or above 90% Current % CPC to Target and at or above 100% Projected % to Target
• Releases stop when the facility drops below 90% Current or 100% Projected % to Target
• Gaining facilities will be considered only from the ATC-8/9s and may be filled until
selection reach a Projected % to Target of 100%
^Obviously this is the biggest new thing. Very interesting, I had heard a level cap was not being considered. It's not a blanket level cap but possibly a fair middle ground?
Phanatical
⭐SuperStar
- Messages
- 935
It's neat and all, but based on the current PPT, it's only 28 facilities that would be eligible to release... and if they release in Round 1, it will likely make them ineligible for Round 2.
FightingIrish2012
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 1,880
This is the thing, like you said I bet a dozen or less facilities are going to able to release in round two.
Acquired Taste
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 965
They really need to start staffing level 10-12 to at least 95% projected. Maybe start stepping it up gradually. Like every panel they staff 1% more. This panel they staff to 90%, next panel to 91% etc...
Unpopular opinion: they should make the requirement to release from 10-12 higher too since those facilities are typically finish your career out type facilities that people dream of getting to and also happen to be the most important to the NAS, yet the most understaffed. Make them have 90% AOB to release
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CryBabiesGoHome
Member
- Messages
- 14
No real way to fix it…please, that’s laughable.
In 3 minutes of sitting in my couch watching shrek I’m able to spit this out:
Start small. Evolve. You really think it would be hard to look at all the level 7 and down facilities, see who wants to ERR to those facilities (go back home), and then direct hire into the transferring out facilities at a prioritized rate? (like other USAJob postings) then you at least get people that applied for a general geo region they want, once they union up and CPC, they can err out of the place they literally applied to be at, not the Russian roulette lottery we all got and they continue to give (thus prolonging the problem)
Once those look good, do the same to 8-10 etc etc. Trial it, scale it and ramp it up.
They are literally sitting in the room saying “union due paying member X of 5 years, can’t go there because we have a prior exp/academy slotted for that spot” (this is the main takeaway here)
for people that have experience being a member of a tenacious union, think electricians, plumbers, LEO, autoworkers etc. the unions that bleed and bend over backwards for the lowest guy in, with a day of dues paid, these are the people that know this is f’ed 5 ways till Sunday.
There are multiple people at my facility that have in for 7 and unders, some asking for a pay cut, just to get close to their homes. but they will never get there(anytime soon) because of the system our uNiOn is telling us to “trust”. Cue hardship.
It’s just insane to me.
Even though time to fully cert at my place is like 10 months, I would welcome a trainee tomorrow morning at 5am if I knew they were my ticket out in two years. So would all the other due paying multi year CPCs that have been trying for 6 years or so.
I love that the fix for this is “you go somewhere (else) you don’t want to go, in an attempt to get where you REALLY want to be, while new hires get your spot. Classic “this isn’t a broken system”
Goes on to say they don’t want to untrain your bad habits, but lord know the MIL guys that only talk to helos and the subway managers are perfect students.
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Idk. Union higher ups say the FAA doesn’t have to allow transfers. That the only reason it’s allowed is because of collaboration. But isn’t part of collaborating making changes when things don’t work? Why not take the ideas of every due paying member and make a system that the majority (not all) can be happy with. Because NCEPT with all these “temporary” modifications simply isn’t it.
CryBabiesGoHome
Member
- Messages
- 14
They also dont have to allow us to wear our mowing clothes to work, but they do, because of the UNION.
Union Higher ups telling you that is just them looking for you to kiss their ring, but at the end of the day, career progression is the ultimate reason they exist - well, that and the occasional DUI.
The fact that you were told that says more about who said it to you.
Walk into any union house at your local city and tell them you want a highly coveted position on a job site. Doesn’t even have to be coveted, just ask for something that has a due paying member in line for and watch them laugh you out the door (after using incorrect pronouns).
Union Higher ups telling you that is just them looking for you to kiss their ring, but at the end of the day, career progression is the ultimate reason they exist - well, that and the occasional DUI.
The fact that you were told that says more about who said it to you.
Walk into any union house at your local city and tell them you want a highly coveted position on a job site. Doesn’t even have to be coveted, just ask for something that has a due paying member in line for and watch them laugh you out the door (after using incorrect pronouns).
