August (Q4) 2022

[Oscar Golf]

But then they wouldn't be able to keep you somewhere you don't want to be for the rest of your working life, which is the entire point of NCEPT

The entire point is ncept is not that. It’s to keep facilities as well staffed as possible, reducing the wait times for releases, and allowing the union some formal input on movement and national placements rather than none which is what it was before.

You being able to move had nothing to do with it. Managment was creating black holes that now still exist because of hardships and managment bids. Creating a good local training culture at the small facilities does more for your chances than anything else.

The old system at least allowed you to get picked up no matter what staffing percentage you had and I would think no matter the staffing percentage the facility you wanted to go had as long as they were not 100%. If I’m at a level 7 with 99% staffing and want to go to a level 9 that’s 91% staffed, I can’t go even though taking me out of the 7 and putting me at the 9, that the level 7 is still staffed better? The 9 wouldn’t be able to pick up in Round 1 and the 7 couldn’t release in Round 2 because they are not over 100%

You could get picked up at any time and not have to wait 3-6 months for the next NCEPT. You don’t have to wait for that next trainee to certify in order to be able to just let go at all and they can catch up with everyone else who wants to leave.

 

[DidYouDoYourNATPRO]

No, it is to purposely restrict movement. All the FAA has to do is keep national numbers low enough so that almost nobody can transfer. And that's exactly what they're doing. It's not real, it's a fugazi. NATCA is absolutely powerless to combat that. They don't control hiring or movement.

There is no scenario in the next 10-15 years where people will be able to transfer about the FAA with the same ease as the previous system. Just because something seems more fair and equitable because it has arbitrary parameters means fuck-all when they will never be met, and yes it is on purpose

 

[Papacharlie327]

But…but…but…nO MoRe tWo yEaR ReLeAsE DaTeS [/QuOtE]

No, it is to purposely restrict movement. All the FAA has to do is keep national numbers low enough so that almost nobody can transfer. And that's exactly what they're doing. It's not real, it's a fugazi. NATCA is absolutely powerless to combat that. They don't control hiring or movement.

There is no scenario in the next 10-15 years where people will be able to transfer about the FAA with the same ease as the previous system. Just because something seems more fair and equitable because it has arbitrary parameters means fuck-all when they will never be met, and yes it is on purpose

Like I said. Most of you will not be transferring anywhere and you will eventually realize you are stuck at your facility forever or you put in for a sup bid. Unless the faa and natca comes up with some kind of mou that offers advancement for controllers without a formula that’s impossible to beat. That’s the sad reality of this job.

 

[Bama]

What were the rules to release prior to covid? Was it above national average or 85%

 

[Mc15]

What were the rules to release prior to covid? Was it above national average or 85%

National average

 

[Bama]

National average

Any idea when they will be going back to that?

 

[ChuckNovember]

Any idea when they will be going back to that?

The NCEPT team says they never want to return to that.

 

[Horno]

The NCEPT team says they never want to return to that.

As in releasing and gaining, up to the national average? Because in this one they were allowed to pick up to the national average I thought?

 

[Acquired Taste]

As in releasing and gaining, up to the national average? Because in this one they were allowed to pick up to the national average I thought?

They used to release down to the actual current national average. Now it's 85%. I don't remember what they used to staff to, but lately they have been staffing the 10-12s up to the projected national average which is currently about 88.4%

 

[Confirmative]

They raised the releasing national average percent to 88.xx% last minute this panel according to my factep
Hence why 14 people got shafted

 

[Acquired Taste]

They raised the releasing national average percent to 88.xx% last minute this panel according to my factep
Hence why 14 people got shafted

Not true because we released at 86%

 

[jtthompson25]

Not true because we released at 86%

So did we

 

[jorgeluis161]

So did we

I believe you can pick up if you are below the national avg (current staffing and projected) and get to the national avg and release until you get to 85%

 

[Pot_Stirrer]

No, it is to purposely restrict movement. All the FAA has to do is keep national numbers low enough so that almost nobody can transfer. And that's exactly what they're doing. It's not real, it's a fugazi. NATCA is absolutely powerless to combat that. They don't control hiring or movement.

There is no scenario in the next 10-15 years where people will be able to transfer about the FAA with the same ease as the previous system. Just because something seems more fair and equitable because it has arbitrary parameters means fuck-all when they will never be met, and yes it is on purpose

You might be old enough to remember NATPRO but obviously you never tried to transfer during the old system. Managers straight up blocked movement because they could. It was a far worse system. I've seen managers give everyone arbitrary 4 year release dates which was a death knell for the receiving facility. Good controllers would get passed up because 99% of facilities weren't willing to wait 4 years for 1 body. How's that for career progression.

I'll give you my PW if you want to knock out my Natpros for me

 

[DidYouDoYourNATPRO]

You might be old enough to remember NATPRO but obviously you never tried to transfer during the old system. Managers straight up blocked movement because they could. It was a far worse system. I've seen managers give everyone arbitrary 4 year release dates which was a death knell for the receiving facility. Good controllers would get passed up because 99% of facilities weren't willing to wait 4 years for 1 body. How's that for career progression.

I'll give you my PW if you want to knock out my Natpros for me

I transferred 3 times under the previous ERR system ?

 

[Papacharlie327]

You might be old enough to remember NATPRO but obviously you never tried to transfer during the old system. Managers straight up blocked movement because they could. It was a far worse system. I've seen managers give everyone arbitrary 4 year release dates which was a death knell for the receiving facility. Good controllers would get passed up because 99% of facilities weren't willing to wait 4 years for 1 body. How's that for career progression.

I'll give you my PW if you want to knock out my Natpros for me

Ur full of shit. I got out of a center to another center with a 2 year release date under the old system. This system is EXACTLY like the old system. Under the old system You kiss the managers ass and unions ass until they cut you a tol. Under this system u kiss the managers ass and unions ass and then they rank who kissed the best ass on their sheet for selection. 2-5 years wait under old system. 2-5 year wait under new system. It’s just a professional good ol boy system now

 

[Confirmative]

I believe you can pick up if you are below the national avg (current staffing and projected) and get to the national avg and release until you get to 85%

That was my belief as well but my facrep told me this when I asked why we didn't release another. I was wondering if anyone else who did not get picked up was told something similar

 

[jorgeluis161]

That was my belief as well but my facrep told me this when I asked why we didn't release another. I was wondering if anyone else who did not get picked up was told something similar

I'd love to know the exact reason why

 

[Pot_Stirrer]

Ur full of shit. I got out of a center to another center with a 2 year release date under the old system. This system is EXACTLY like the old system. Under the old system You kiss the managers ass and unions ass until they cut you a tol. Under this system u kiss the managers ass and unions ass and then they rank who kissed the best ass on their sheet for selection. 2-5 years wait under old system. 2-5 year wait under new system. It’s just a professional good ol boy system now

I'm not full of shit. But I'll attempt to make myself more clear since you just glossed over what I said (not surprising since you are a center "controller" so I won't hold that against you).

It doesn't matter who kissed ass to get released. When it came down for your current facility to release you, managers were not bound to any time limit. Not even 2 years. Some facilities (my old one included) abused this by giving 4 year release dates since they technically couldn't deny your release. This caused receiving facilities to either eat the 4 year release or say nevermind and pass on you (which happened way more often).

Go get your shinebox, kiddo.

 

[Dolan]

When it came down for your current facility to release you, managers were not bound to any time limit. Not even 2 years.

It might be region specific but I can tell you in western pacific and mountain that statement is/was absoutely false. Many attempts to give over 18 months were made and natca made every single one come back down. No one was getting 2 years or higher