3rd Quarter 2017

so here's a question I've seen discussed and don't know what the answer is. You are currently Cat 2. You get picked up this panel. Your ATM gives you a 12 month date. You have a few trainees that could certify this fall/winter which would put you Cat 1. Does your ATM have to release you 3 months from the date that the certified controller made your facility Cat 1?
 
Terry said:
so here's a question I've seen discussed and don't know what the answer is. You are currently Cat 2. You get picked up this panel. Your ATM gives you a 12 month date. You have a few trainees that could certify this fall/winter which would put you Cat 1. Does your ATM have to release you 3 months from the date that the certified controller made your facility Cat 1?
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Yes and it goes in order of selection (assuming more then 1 Cat II selection)
 
  1. In the event a facility moves from a Category 2 release window to a Category 1 release window, employees with Category 2 release dates will be afforded the opportunity to have their existing release dates adjusted to comply with the Category 1 release window, prior to the issuance of subsequent release dates

    Per the MOU.
 
Here's a fun question! What if someone at your facility accepted an FLM position AFTER the 5/31 PPT was finalized, and BEFORE the NCEPT panel on 6/14. According to the numbers, on this NCEPT panel, we're able to lose ONE person. There's an excellent chance that someone will get selected on an ERR next week. Will the FAA/NCEPT revoke an ERR TOL based on the FLM acceptance? #ihateverything
 
LadyLuck777 said:
Here's a fun question! What if someone at your facility accepted an FLM position AFTER the 5/31 PPT was finalized, and BEFORE the NCEPT panel on 6/14. According to the numbers, on this NCEPT panel, we're able to lose ONE person. There's an excellent chance that someone will get selected on an ERR next week. Will the FAA/NCEPT revoke an ERR TOL based on the FLM acceptance? #ihateverything
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I'd say that if the paperwork for the FLM is submitted prior to the NCEPT panel meeting, someone will get screwed out of an ERR move...
 
LadyLuck777 said:
Here's a fun question! What if someone at your facility accepted an FLM position AFTER the 5/31 PPT was finalized, and BEFORE the NCEPT panel on 6/14. According to the numbers, on this NCEPT panel, we're able to lose ONE person. There's an excellent chance that someone will get selected on an ERR next week. Will the FAA/NCEPT revoke an ERR TOL based on the FLM acceptance? #ihateverything
Click to expand...
No, they will not revoke it. The NCEPT is a snap shot moment in time. One will be released from your facility. Having someone getting selected for an FLM job after the PPT is no different then someone retiring, quiting, dying, etc.
 
breakaway2000 said:
No, they will not revoke it. The NCEPT is a snap shot moment in time. One will be released from your facility. Having someone getting selected for an FLM job after the PPT is no different then someone retiring, quiting, dying, etc.
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Our ATM is telling controllers that only the individual taking the FLM job will be released and no one will be able to leave on an ERR. I suggested that maybe this type of ATM behavior is why NCEPT came to be... I guess we'll find out what happens next week!
 
LadyLuck777 said:
Our ATM is telling controllers that only the individual taking the FLM job will be released and no one will be able to leave on an ERR. I suggested that maybe this type of ATM behavior is why NCEPT came to be... I guess we'll find out what happens next week!
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Your ATM does not have the ability to stop someone from being selected on an ERR. He/she does, however, have the ability to lie to other ATMs that call and ask about controllers who have ERRs in and as most ATM's don't know the ins and outs of the process, they could certainly believe him/her and rank you lower.
 
breakaway2000 said:
Your ATM does not have the ability to stop someone from being selected on an ERR. He/she does, however, have the ability to lie to other ATMs that call and ask about controllers who have ERRs in and as most ATM's don't know the ins and outs of the process, they could certainly believe him/her and rank you lower.
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No reason to rank someone lower if they think they'll be unavailable. If he lies and says you stink that's different
 
breakaway2000 said:
Your ATM does not have the ability to stop someone from being selected on an ERR. He/she does, however, have the ability to lie to other ATMs that call and ask about controllers who have ERRs in and as most ATM's don't know the ins and outs of the process, they could certainly believe him/her and rank you lower.
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Thankfully, the new ATM called about me before all this happened haha. Thank you for your insight! I'm grateful to have someone level-headed to discuss this issue with. Isn't it true though, that even if my ATM *did* try to sabotage me, the NCEPT panel has the final say in selections? I've heard that the manager rankings are not necessarily a guarantee when it comes to who gets selected.
 
LadyLuck777 said:
Thankfully, the new ATM called about me before all this happened haha. Thank you for your insight! I'm grateful to have someone level-headed to discuss this issue with. Isn't it true though, that even if my ATM *did* try to sabotage me, the NCEPT panel has the final say in selections? I've heard that the manager rankings are not necessarily a guarantee when it comes to who gets selected.
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This is true, the NCEPT panel decides
 
LadyLuck777 said:
Thankfully, the new ATM called about me before all this happened haha. Thank you for your insight! I'm grateful to have someone level-headed to discuss this issue with. Isn't it true though, that even if my ATM *did* try to sabotage me, the NCEPT panel has the final say in selections? I've heard that the manager rankings are not necessarily a guarantee when it comes to who gets selected.
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Like Omegahare said, NCEPT has the final say. It will go directly off the manager's ranking list, but who is still eligible when it gets to facility X is the unknown. There is no emotion in the NCEPT panel. Quite frankly, I have no idea why they meet, a simple computer algorithm could accomplish what they want from the manager ranking list data.
EX. Lets say Facility X has 15 ERR's, worst case they rank you 15th. By the time it gets to them, 1-14 could no longer be eligible.

In the panels we've been eligible to release, my facility hasn't made it past the 4th facility on the facility priority list.
 
Robertb said:
Did you put in an ERR for A80? I don't remember seeing anyone from LEX on the list for this panel.
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I checked out same day the ERR paperwork was due. I just completed my ERRs for ZTL, A80 and ATL but I would prefer A80 because most of my exp is in approach. I should have completed the paperwork the same day I checked out but I decided to wait for a few reasons and now I'm kind of regretting it.
 
Can the ATM leave someone out of their rankings? For instance if the ATM knows he doesn't want a controller from a level 5 tower at his level 12 radar facility. Can they just not rank them and have them not be considered? Or is that type of decision out of the hands of the ATM?
 
JE said:
Can the ATM leave someone out of their rankings? For instance if the ATM knows he doesn't want a controller from a level 5 tower at his level 12 radar facility. Can they just not rank them and have them not be considered? Or is that type of decision out of the hands of the ATM?
Click to expand...
They used to not rank people or rank everyone they didn't want '99' (it didn't matter, they'd still give those people TOL's if they had more slots then eligible ERRs). This is the first panel where each person needs to be individually ranked or the ATM will have the list returned to them to complete.
 

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