August (Q4) 2023

[CoffeeIV]

And yet it’s true. You can name call, but it’s true. Taking the time to do err paperwork when you’re already on 6 day weeks with no hope of ever getting to the national average is just taking away what little free time you have left. Have you ever talked to someone stuck at ZNY?

What good is paperwork when you’re 100 CPCs down?

Its not true. I put in my paperwork knowing it would be a minimum of 2 years before I got out. So did everyone before me. If youre too lazy to put in the work, then stay there. You're the problem and you cant accept it.

I just find it amusing, N90 and ZNY both have 0 employees with paperwork on file. New York mafia comes on here whining but they love their facilities.

Anyone that actually wants to transfer can, you hardship. If you want out, youll get out.

You're a tool. Ever hear of rounding

Sorry, dont come at me with bullshit and get mad. You're making up nonsense acting like 10,000 people want to move.

 

[BDUB]

This is very true and a conspiracy that actually has some roots in my opinion. Lol at faxes. Like wtf?

Yup it’s funny though you never hear about how many people work in those offices in OKC….you’re telling me they don’t complain that they have to transfer 1000 applicants to whatever system they use craaaaazy

 

[twn]

Sorry, dont come at me with bullshit and get mad. You're making up nonsense acting like 10,000 people want to move.

Get fucking bent. I never said 10,000 people want to move. Since you are too simple minded to figure it out yourself, I'll clearly explain my thinking to you. Roughly 400 people were able to transfer this year. There are roughly 10,000 cpcs in the nas. 400 is 4% of 10,000. Therefore roughly 4% of the nas was able to transfer this year.

Is my thinking clear enough for you now?

 

[Bandit117]

And yet it’s true. You can name call, but it’s true. Taking the time to do err paperwork when you’re already on 6 day weeks with no hope of ever getting to the national average is just taking away what little free time you have left. Have you ever talked to someone stuck at ZNY?

And yet it’s true. You can name call, but it’s true. Taking the time to do err paperwork when you’re already on 6 day weeks with no hope of ever getting to the national average is just taking away what little free time you have left. Have you ever talked to someone stuck at ZNY?

Its not true. I put in my paperwork knowing it would be a minimum of 2 years before I got out. So did everyone before me. If youre too lazy to put in the work, then stay there. You're the problem and you cant accept it.

I just find it amusing, N90 and ZNY both have 0 employees with paperwork on file. New York mafia comes on here whining but they love their facilities.

Anyone that actually wants to transfer can, you hardship. If you want out, youll get out.

Again, what’s the point of paperwork when you’re 100 plus down. You’ll never actually make it to a ranking list. It’s polishing the brass on the titanic.

Hardships… ZNY was right behind ZOA. Something like 30 plus out of each since ncept started. And that’s just the ones that got approved

 

[Acquired Taste]

It isn't a simple 10 mins of filling out forms. It takes time to do ERRs. southwest416 made it as easy as it can get with the current system but you still have to have an updated resume, hunt down your supe for signatures, fax it to HR, and play phone tag with them for 3 weeks to get them to confirm receipt of your packets. It's a decent amount of work to do and it only stays on file for 15 months so I, and everyone at my old facility, waited until we actually knew we could release to submit paperwork. Once the flood gates opened, we literally had the most outbound ERRs in the NAS at one point. So yes, I would say there's lot of places like that where demand to transfer out is not adequately reflected because it really is pointless unless they change the release criteria.

 

[ajmezz]

It isn't a simple 10 mins of filling out forms. It takes time to do ERRs. southwest416 made it as easy as it can get with the current system but you still have to have an updated resume, hunt down your supe for signatures, fax it to HR, and play phone tag with them for 3 weeks to get them to confirm receipt of your packets. It's a decent amount of work to do and it only stays on file for 15 months so I, and everyone at my old facility, waited until we actually knew we could release to submit paperwork. Once the flood gates opened, we literally had the most outbound ERRs in the NAS at one point. So yes, I would say there's lot of places like that where demand to transfer out is not adequately reflected because it really is pointless unless they change the release criteria.

I agree, but for FWIW, only your signature is required now.

 

[AB19]

We had the Southwest region telling us they thought we all liked where we were at because no one filed ERRs despite eighteen months earlier a tiger team coming in and asking why we all hated our job and being stuck at with no hope of releasing. I wanted out but never put in an ERR, and most people don't because they don't think it actually matters to National Natca or the FAA. If NATCA said we will look at the system if X percent want to move and we don't reach it things will change, everyone would file tomorrow. I'm also a hypocrite because I never filed an ERR despite bidding every single move money bid on USAjobs, but I have the same reasoning as everyone else.

 

[Mike Kilo]

It isn't a simple 10 mins of filling out forms. It takes time to do ERRs. southwest416 made it as easy as it can get with the current system but you still have to have an updated resume, hunt down your supe for signatures, fax it to HR, and play phone tag with them for 3 weeks to get them to confirm receipt of your packets. It's a decent amount of work to do and it only stays on file for 15 months so I, and everyone at my old facility, waited until we actually knew we could release to submit paperwork. Once the flood gates opened, we literally had the most outbound ERRs in the NAS at one point. So yes, I would say there's lot of places like that where demand to transfer out is not adequately reflected because it really is pointless unless they change the release criteria.

What changes on most of our resumes in 15 months? Dates is probably about it. I’ve filled out a shit ton of ERRs and bids and once you have one set done the rest are very fast. The 3330-43-1 is similarly easy. Once most of it is filled out the only changes are the requested facility.

As you can tell by people on here digging into numbers that this would be a way to make your voice heard-ish. If ZNY and ZOA had 80% of people actively trying to transfer that is more notable than 0% or very low numbers.

I do understand the despair at a facility who cannot release for a long time, but these rules change every panel and you literally cannot know how it will play out. Maybe not the few facilities down 100s of controllers lol.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Get fucking bent. I never said 10,000 people want to move. Since you are too simple minded to figure it out yourself, I'll clearly explain my thinking to you. Roughly 400 people were able to transfer this year. There are roughly 10,000 cpcs in the nas. 400 is 4% of 10,000. Therefore roughly 4% of the nas was able to transfer this year.

Is my thinking clear enough for you now?

400 people out of how many people that actually wanted to move. 1200? That's 30%. 2000? That's 20%. You're trying to be misleading by using a number that doesn't matter.

 

[Acquired Taste]

What changes on most of our resumes in 15 months? Dates is probably about it. I’ve filled out a shit ton of ERRs and bids and once you have one set done the rest are very fast. The 3330-43-1 is similarly easy. Once most of it is filled out the only changes are the requested facility.

As you can tell by people on here digging into numbers that this would be a way to make your voice heard-ish. If ZNY and ZOA had 80% of people actively trying to transfer that is more notable than 0% or very low numbers.

I do understand the despair at a facility who cannot release for a long time, but these rules change every panel and you literally cannot know how it will play out. Maybe not the few facilities down 100s of controllers lol.

It's not like having a bunch of people with ERRs on file is going to change anything. The FAA isn't going to hire more or send them more bodies than somewhere with no ERRs. The rules to release have been the same for multiple years now. 85% actual/ 85% projected at a minimum. If you know you're at 72% actual and have no trainees more than halfway through training, there is effectively a 0% chance the rules will change enough to allow a surprise release one panel, therefore rendering the effort to submit the ERRs pointless IMO.

 

[Move78]

What if they change NRP and all the lazies flip their shit cuz they didn’t get notice ahead of time to file. Or they carve out special rules below NRP for some random panel. Or the crwg goes through and they’re basically forced to redo or transition NRP.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

You all do realize that without NATCA at the table there would literally be NO movement. None.

Pathetic, off-brand Kool Aid drinking scum.

 

[Mike Kilo]

It's not like having a bunch of people with ERRs on file is going to change anything. The FAA isn't going to hire more or send them more bodies than somewhere with no ERRs. The rules to release have been the same for multiple years now. 85% actual/ 85% projected at a minimum. If you know you're at 72% actual and have no trainees more than halfway through training, there is effectively a 0% chance the rules will change enough to allow a surprise release one panel, therefore rendering the effort to submit the ERRs pointless IMO.

I guess I’m thinking more about the facilities that can pick up having changing rules I guess.

I agree it probably won’t change anything, but it’s a step above bitching about it to co workers and a forum. It would be nice if right now we could point and say 80% of controllers at ZNY have wanted to leave for 5 years but have been unable to release one the proper way.

 

[Acquired Taste]

What if they change NRP and all the lazies flip their shit cuz they didn’t get notice ahead of time to file. Or they carve out special rules below NRP for some random panel. Or the crwg goes through and they’re basically forced to redo or transition NRP.

I think CRWG is still a ways out with the way government works. Isn't it 180 days from when the bill gets signed to validate the process and another 180 days to implement it and the bill hasn't even been signed yet? I think I'll take my chances and there will probably be sufficient notice of the implementation I would like to think.

It would be nice if right now we could point and say 80% of controllers at ZNY have wanted to leave for 5 years but have been unable to release one the proper way.

If they wanted to really see the demand, they would make the process electronic and only take a few mins the way others have suggested.

 

[Homsar]

957 = Employees with ERRs (I put 952 for some reason initially).

Where is this number from?

 

[HurryUpandWait]

This keeps getting mentioned, but how many selections were yo hoping for? I heard that they selected every one who was available. Looking at the Demand sheet there's a bunch of facilities that have no one trying to leave...should the agency force movement out of them?

I am hoping for more than 1% of the workforce to be able to transfer. The fact that there were only 88 available to be selected is the issue and why I said it is depressing.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Where is this number from?

ERR demand list on NATCA site. Click members. Then NCEPT link.

 

[boots]

I have ERRs in to every facility.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Did that guy from Columbus get picked up?

 

[ChuckNovember]

957 = Employees with ERRs (I put 952 for some reason initially).

Those 957 employees have 2,843 ERRs on file. Of those ERRs, only 725 were releasable. So about 3 ERRs are on file per employee looking to transfer. 88 people were selected so theoretically there could be 264 less ERRs in the system.

Either way, you can take the data and spin it one way or the other. I view 9.2% of the people trying to move getting selected in a single bid pretty good especially for a "low" amount. I wish I could find the "ERR Demand" file for previous months/quarters to compare more data.

I'm also a big believer in "perception is everything". If more people want to transfer, they should be putting in their paperwork regardless if their facility can release or not. It raises more awareness if 1-2% of the requests are getting approved a quarter compared to almost 10% of the requests.

I hope deep down you understand why the 952 number is bad data. You can’t expect people to fill out paperwork for shits and giggles when you have regional NCEPT reps saying shit like “the purpose of NCEPT isn’t to transfer anyone it’s to staff facilities” and “Our goal is that about 100 controllers move per quarter”.

Modify the rules (once again) to go in order of how long your paperwork has been on file and watch that 952 number explode.