Somenewguy
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Anyone who thinks ATSAP protects from negligence is a bit oblivious.
Austin Incident
- Thread starter Smitty
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- PIE St. Petersburg Tower
The NTI forces trainees to train for the sake of getting the magical hours they need for the day damn the traffic or not. Even though we are told the NTI isn't a mandate it's a goal... Most facility management will train to the hours needed on shit traffic... Most new trainees aren't ready to check out or shouldn't be checked out at all... And than we wonder why shit like this is happening ?♂️
A few things:
1. This was around 6:40am, so hopefully the day shift and not mid shift. I could see the knee jerk reaction of mid shifts requiring 2 people in the cab all the time which would suck.
2. With this and the JFK incident, I'm assuming from things I've read that both facilities were working OT/understaffed... maybe this helps our cause to get more people but probably not. Unfortunately this was incredibly negligent ATC and borderline impossible to defend.
3. Lots of people trying to shit on newer controllers. It will be amusing when it comes out this dude had been there awhile. I've seen most bad deals happen by the "seasoned" controllers in tower and radar.
1. This was around 6:40am, so hopefully the day shift and not mid shift. I could see the knee jerk reaction of mid shifts requiring 2 people in the cab all the time which would suck.
2. With this and the JFK incident, I'm assuming from things I've read that both facilities were working OT/understaffed... maybe this helps our cause to get more people but probably not. Unfortunately this was incredibly negligent ATC and borderline impossible to defend.
3. Lots of people trying to shit on newer controllers. It will be amusing when it comes out this dude had been there awhile. I've seen most bad deals happen by the "seasoned" controllers in tower and radar.
Approved
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According to the SOP I just looked up, IFR departures are released to 4,000.
32andBelow
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So FedEx to 3 and southwest to 4? Chill
Phillytroll69
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Depends on the sid..but more than that they at the bottom of this link
AUS - Austin-Bergstrom International Airport | SkyVector
You have a shit facrep that has shown they are unable to fight that and show you, the ojti, the reasons an atm and the Natca training rep has to use to justify why a trainee doesn’t get their hours. Armed with that you would be able to help the atm and the facility to fight shit certifications. Combine that with a workforce and shitty supervisors who are unable to document deficiencies or know how to recommend skill training, which automatically pauses training.
What you just wrote is the common bullshit that requires nothing more than complaining as opposed to doing what is actually expected of you as a member of the training team.
The atm is only forcing you because he doesn’t want to justify, you comply by having a lack of understanding how it’s supposed to work.
Re 3. - That guy has been training there for 4 plus years. Almost washed before Covid but got a full recycle bc 2020. he has a trail of ugly deals at every facility he’s been to, and a sketchy history with the faa in general.
RE 2. It’s indefensible. This was never ever going to work.
FightingIrish2012
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This taught us a lot of things and will continue to teach us more as the details continue to come out.
But we can already learned and can confirm one thing which is undeniable……. Wake turbulence is absolute made up bull shit, and it always has been.
2 minutes or 5 miles my dick. That Southwest departed with the FedEx a few hundred feet in front of him and a few hundred feet above him, and road it all out up to 3,000. The plane didn’t crash, lose airspeed, experience turbulence, nothing. If you were ever going to see wake know a departure out of the air it was then. But not only did that not happen, nothing happen.
Wake turbulence don’t exist.
I am disturbed though that the SWA pilot took about 75-80 seconds to roll even though traffic was called, then said “negative” when asked to abort. He had a robotic monotone through the whole thing too. Not the cool calm and collected monotone, the maybe I decided to kill myself manner and will do so in this manner with all the people with me like the German and allegedly a Chinese pilot did a few years back. Weird.
Maybe there will be a round table discussion one day at a NATCA conference with the FedEx pilot, the SWA captain and the controller. I hope the FedEx pilot walks over and BITCH SLAPS!!! the SWA pilot for putting everyone at risk. Bitch slaps him like Jamaal Haltom bitch slapping a Denver peep at a NATCA conference lol.
But we can already learned and can confirm one thing which is undeniable……. Wake turbulence is absolute made up bull shit, and it always has been.
2 minutes or 5 miles my dick. That Southwest departed with the FedEx a few hundred feet in front of him and a few hundred feet above him, and road it all out up to 3,000. The plane didn’t crash, lose airspeed, experience turbulence, nothing. If you were ever going to see wake know a departure out of the air it was then. But not only did that not happen, nothing happen.
Wake turbulence don’t exist.
I am disturbed though that the SWA pilot took about 75-80 seconds to roll even though traffic was called, then said “negative” when asked to abort. He had a robotic monotone through the whole thing too. Not the cool calm and collected monotone, the maybe I decided to kill myself manner and will do so in this manner with all the people with me like the German and allegedly a Chinese pilot did a few years back. Weird.
Maybe there will be a round table discussion one day at a NATCA conference with the FedEx pilot, the SWA captain and the controller. I hope the FedEx pilot walks over and BITCH SLAPS!!! the SWA pilot for putting everyone at risk. Bitch slaps him like Jamaal Haltom bitch slapping a Denver peep at a NATCA conference lol.
Phillyman2633
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YES!!!! This is fire. MOARRRR. They thought they buried the Jamal wylin' out in Vegas episode but we remember. mmhmm
Robert_Boucher
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I fixed the FDX Alt for you Phillyman2633 
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Only thing I will disagree with is the lack of understanding part. I know the NTI. I know specifically that it is not a mandate. If a trainee takes a day off management here makes the trainee make up the time since they took leave. I brought that to the facrep... Blew me off. Brought it to management... Same thing. Since I'm leaving it is what it is... Some of those who checked out here should have never been certified but our standards here have gone down the toilet and at this point.... I'm leaving so ✌️
The workforce here just wants bodies (which is understandable... Most of us have been on 6 days for a couple of years now). But I for one would want someone who is ready than just rush to check someone who is capable of pulling something as stupid and dangerous as this...
A couple things - it takes a little while to get lined up straight on the runway when you have 1/8 of a mile vis, it’s going to take a little more time because you have to go slow, airplanes are not meant to be on the ground and they handle very poorly on the ground at the best of times. They are awkward and ungainly and there’s no such thing as a fender bender in a plane. Everything slows down and in hard IFR and I would never expect a pilot to rip it around the corner in such poor conditions and immediately hit the throttle‘s before they insured their alignment, which is way more critical when you can hardly see.
I don’t know for sure, but it’s very possible that they passed the speed at which they must continue the takeoff roll. past a certain speed and you’re fully committed because you won’t be able to stop with the remaining runway you have. They may have no been able to stop if they wanted to.
You are absolutely right about the bitch slaps but the southwest and FedEx need to get free shots at the idiot controller
kombucha23
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FightingIrish2012
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Maybe on the NATCA Members Facebook page there is some kind of statement or additional information on it.
“Employee used leave” is a reasonable justification to use for a trainee not to get their hours, that is in fact on the drop down that the atm and Natca rep have to submit for all their trainees .
So anyone blowing you off is a huge part of the problem. Good on you for asking. If that shit happens again refuse to train and ask why that’s not a reasonable justification for you to use as to why your trainee doesn’t get their hours. Ask to see those justifications as well
This is why we have fucking problems for staffing morale etc
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