General Questions

GulfBravoPapa

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Your ATM and Facrep have 0 control over outbound selections. Cat2 is at or before 12 months after selection. If you’re selected your ATM can hold you for 12 months at most. Any deviations from the MOU have to be approved by VP of ATS.
The 30% cpc to trainee ratio was an inbound restriction so it could cause a facility to have less selections but is irrelevant to release eligibility.
If the PPT displays 2 losses than you can lose 2.
Because I think a lot of people don't understand NCEPT. Just because your facility can release two and multiple people have paperwork in doesn't actually guarantee two people will be selected.
 

Shikaka

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This is untrue. You need AOB above 85% and projected above 85%. Most facilities are projected above 85% especially if you receive new hire placements in any way. AOB (requires certs) is what is keeping most controllers from being release eligible.

A common thing I hear is that trainees need to certify for a release to be had, which is not the case. There can be planned outbounds, and trainees on the books, with no certifications and a facility can release based off of gaining enough inbounds while the outbound CAT2 is still at the facility. COVID EA as example, if they continue NCEPT, trainees don't even have to set foot inside a facility for them to count towards the projected AOB.
 

32andBelow

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A common thing I hear is that trainees need to certify for a release to be had, which is not the case. There can be planned outbounds, and trainees on the books, with no certifications and a facility can release based off of gaining enough inbounds while the outbound CAT2 is still at the facility. COVID EA as example, if they continue NCEPT, trainees don't even have to set foot inside a facility for them to count towards the projected AOB.
Won’t the projected numbers start training as the average certifications are updated?
 

Shikaka

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Won’t the projected numbers start training as the average certifications are updated?
Move78 has a better understanding but I believe the projected numbers are based on the success rate and a facility's average time to certify, in consideration of inbounds/trainees expected to certify.

And the entire info is a rolling average, so even if people take a while to get training/certify it won't change quickly.
 

Ad1234

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A common thing I hear is that trainees need to certify for a release to be had, which is not the case. There can be planned outbounds, and trainees on the books, with no certifications and a facility can release based off of gaining enough inbounds while the outbound CAT2 is still at the facility. COVID EA as example, if they continue NCEPT, trainees don't even have to set foot inside a facility for them to count towards the projected AOB.
The manager has to put those trainees in staffing workbook within that projected period for them to count. Trainees don’t have certify you are correct, but at a center an AG will never count within the projected period day one, they have to get a few certs first. Figure out what the projected period is and you’ll have a better indication of how your number is calculated, low level tower only probably a year.
 

Shikaka

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The manager has to put those trainees in staffing workbook within that projected period for them to count. Trainees don’t have certify you are correct, but at a center an AG will never count within the projected period day one, they have to get a few certs first. Figure out what the projected period is and you’ll have a better indication of how your number is calculated, low level tower only probably a year.
Is the projected period not the average training time?
 

Ad1234

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Is the projected period not the average training time?
No. Its a year because that is the longest release possible under ncept. Managers or districts have to enter projected certification date in staffing workbook for all trainees, if it falls outside of the year those trainees do not count toward th3 projected number. I have heard rumors some facilities operate outside of that but no prof and just rumors.
 

Move78

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A common thing I hear is that trainees need to certify for a release to be had, which is not the case. There can be planned outbounds, and trainees on the books, with no certifications and a facility can release based off of gaining enough inbounds while the outbound CAT2 is still at the facility. COVID EA as example, if they continue NCEPT, trainees don't even have to set foot inside a facility for them to count towards the projected AOB.
My point is a trainee needing to certify for a release to be had is usually the case. Years ago when the projected half of the release requirement was natl avg (~90-92%) then both AOB and projected were often a factor. With the projected bar lowered to 85%, and the general inflated projecteds in the data, most facilities are either 85 AOB or they’re red.
There are many columns included in the projected formula. All the green columns positively effect projected and the red columns negatively effect it. But projected has been largely irrelevant for release for quite some time.

The manager has to put those trainees in staffing workbook within that projected period for them to count. Trainees don’t have certify you are correct, but at a center an AG will never count within the projected period day one, they have to get a few certs first. Figure out what the projected period is and you’ll have a better indication of how your number is calculated, low level tower only probably a year.
All of this is untrue. All trainees/inbounds count towards projected on day 1

No. Its a year because that is the longest release possible under ncept. Managers or districts have to enter projected certification date in staffing workbook for all trainees, if it falls outside of the year those trainees do not count toward th3 projected number. I have heard rumors some facilities operate outside of that but no prof and just rumors.
Yes they have estimated cert dates manually entered into SWB. Those dates are not a part of the projected formula.
 
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Ad1234

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My point is a trainee needing to certify for a release to be had is usually the case. Years ago when the projected half of the release requirement was natl avg (~90-92%) then both AOB and projected were often a factor. With the projected bar lowered to 85%, and the general inflated projecteds in the data, most facilities are either 85 AOB or they’re red.
There are many columns included in the projected formula. All the green columns positively effect projected and the red columns negatively effect it. But projected has been largely irrelevant for release for quite some time.


All of this is untrue. All trainees/inbounds count towards projected on day 1


Yes they have estimated cert dates manually entered into SWB. Those dates are not a part of the projected formula.
So a center or an up/down AG trainee with a projected certification date entered in staffing workbook for 2 years from their first day at the facility, counts toward projected staffing within the same period as a level 5-6-7 tower only? If that’s what you know for a fact at a facility with long training times then the projected calculation is different there than facilities with shorter training times, which I have been told is only a year due to the fact that the longest release date is a year.
 

Move78

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So a center or an up/down AG trainee with a projected certification date entered in staffing workbook for 2 years from their first day at the facility, counts toward projected staffing within the same period as a level 5-6-7 tower only? If that’s what you know for a fact at a facility with long training times then the projected calculation is different there than facilities with shorter training times, which I have been told is only a year due to the fact that the longest release date is a year.
You were told wrong. It’s training time in years. You can plug in the data yourself on an editable ppt

Shikaka
There are currently only 2 facilities that are red solely because of their projected. And that is only temporary because they are likely to receive some kind of placement outside of NCEPT sometime soon.
The only facilities whose projecteds are red and will stay that way are certain terminal 9ish-12 that depend almost entirely on ncept for inbounds. And all of those facilities’ AOBs will remain red far longer than their projecteds. It’s the certs that will get them green. And even that is only in theory because their AOB will inevitably be pilfered by the Agency via deviation and by NATCA via hardship.
 

Ad1234

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You were told wrong. It’s training time in years. You can plug in the data yourself on an editable ppt
I was told by a union and management representative that it was when I asked how long is the period? Not just at my facility?

So what the hell.
Also maybe it should only be a year because then some facilities wouldn’t be able to release and give some others a chance. It would facilitate more appropriate movement and academy placement.
 

Move78

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I was told by a union and management representative that it was when I asked how long is the period? Not just at my facility?

So what the hell.
Also maybe it should only be a year because then some facilities wouldn’t be able to release and give some others a chance. It would facilitate more appropriate movement and academy placement.
The PPT is the foundation for staffing projections and movement but not the other way around.
The only scenario where release categories could technically effect the projected column incorrectly (in theory, because let’s be honest a lot of this process is incorrect) is if a facility has a cat2 release of 12 months and their training time in years is less than that. In that case they’re registering an outbound that won’t actually be outbound within the data’s timeframe.
If your training time in years is 2 years then your 12 month outbound is still outbound within the data’s timeframe.
 

Ad1234

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The PPT is the foundation for staffing projections and movement but not the other way around.
The only scenario where release categories could technically effect the projected column incorrectly (in theory, because let’s be honest a lot of this process is incorrect) is if a facility has a cat2 release of 12 months and their training time in years is less than that. In that case they’re registering an outbound that won’t actually be outbound within the data’s timeframe.
If your training time in years is 2 years then your 12 month outbound is still outbound within the data’s timeframe.
How is an outbound of 12 months counted in the projection when you are saying the projection collumn is less time than that?
 

Move78

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How is an outbound of 12 months counted in the projection when you are saying the projection collumn is less time than that?
I didn’t explain it very well. The projection column is projected over the time frame of training time in years. So if your training time is 2 years then an outbound in 12 months is an outbound within those 2 years.
 

Ad1234

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I didn’t explain it very well. The projection column is projected over the time frame of training time in years. So if your training time is 2 years then an outbound in 12 months is an outbound within those 2 years.
I understand that and makes total sense and that’s obviously what it should be. You did give a scenario above that an outbound at 12 months would be counted when the average training time is less and they are still counted....that can’t possibly be the case.
 

Move78

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I understand that and makes total sense and that’s obviously what it should be. You did give a scenario above that an outbound at 12 months would be counted when the average training time is less and they are still counted....that can’t possibly be the case.
Ah I see what you mean. So I guess the correct way to phrase it is the projected column doesn’t technically have a timetable within the formula because it’s just a formula using the specific inbound(green) outbound(red) columns. It’s just “meant” to reflect training time in years because there’s a training time in years based column within it. The retirements and other losses (red) uses training time in years however that formula is not visible and is calculated by the finance department.
 
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