Leaving NATCA outside January

[32andBelow]

I'm interested in these supes that can work traffic and stand up to managers. I've met maybe one that could work traffic but they all do what they're told when the ATM says so.

It’s usually the fully rated dudes that become sups at the end for their high 3

 

[Mike Kilo]

Are you the same guy that dogs low seniority controllers for jumping to
Management because that’s the only way to actual move around and not deal with NCEPT bullshit for years. I’d rather have a FLM that can work traffic and been around the block taking some of these Sup spots, at least they have a backbone to confront their managers then a year CPC taking the position that puts their tail between their legs.
Natca doesn’t care that this is what we have to deal with in the operation, when they should. They aren’t interested in adjusting the seniority article still salty AF from a contract from 14 years ago.
That collaboration really creating a cultural change right!

Nope. If you read my post history I tell people to do whatever it takes to get where they wanna go, nobody else is gonna help them. I’d bid a sup job today if I wanted to leave and NCEPT wasn’t working for me. And those two sup scenarios you posted are the same. New hires with one year in bidding management because NCEPT won’t let them move lol. There are good sups out there and I don’t really care if they can work planes because that’s what I do. I need them to see the bigger picture and understand what a specific flow change will do to the operation and tell the tracon no when appropriate etc etc etc. Not clear a guy for take off. Very few places anymore don’t give sup checkouts even if they get the whole facility, so unless they were a previous CPC there it’s the same shit.

 

[Deuce]

I really do understand that but selecting based of PAC contributions is an unfair advantage to those that are able to donate more than others can. For instance if someone donates money to the DRC or NCF instead of the PAC are they any less pro union than any other member?

I will concede selecting a member over non member. My issue is NATCA adding another layer by telling reps to consider PAC contributors over other members.

To be honest I don't care either way it just seemed like people weren't getting that guys point and were talking in circles

I withdrew from the pac, it's a scam, I think people wishing the union didn't have a say are fools, and I think people who aren't in the union should all get directed reassignments to n90

 

[Spaceforce]

I think people who aren't in the union should all get directed reassignments to ROW

FTFY!

 

[Motodog]

FTFY!

This may be a bad comparison-but with the pilots, it’s 100% seniority for base transfer/change aircraft. So simple. With ATC, it’s kind of a mess…for example how can you give a switch to a level 5 or 6 tower controller over a slightly more junior L12 enroute guy? seems there has to be some ‘subjective’ parameters/judgement/“corrupt horseshit”, ummm, what else?

 

[Deuce]

FTFY!

I welcome this amendment to my proposal

 

[ATC Zero]

This may be a bad comparison-but with the pilots, it’s 100% seniority for base transfer/change aircraft. So simple. With ATC, it’s kind of a mess…for example how can you give a switch to a level 5 or 6 tower controller over a slightly more junior L12 enroute guy? seems there has to be some ‘subjective’ parameters/judgement/“corrupt horseshit”, ummm, what else?

Because the level 5 or 6 got placed there vs a level 12 on initial placement, they should have to jump through more hoops or facilities? That is straight garbage. That’s why the union should stay out of transfers completely and go back to putting them all on USAJOBS. That way the union can’t be blamed for being part of the problem.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Because the level 5 or 6 got placed there vs a level 12 on initial placement, they should have to jump through more hoops or facilities? That is straight garbage. That’s why the union should stay out of transfers completely and go back to putting them all on USAJOBS. That way the union can’t be blamed for being part of the problem.

Union will always be blamed…. As will the FAA lol. It’s what we do!

 

[ATC Zero]

Union will always be blamed…. As will the FAA lol. It’s what we do!

If you want to see more solidarity better to have one way vs the other, just saying. Until NCEPT never thought of blaming Natca for why the hell 20+ Applications on USAJOBS resulted in nothing and I know I wasn’t the only one.

 

[Mike Kilo]

If you want to see more solidarity better to have one way vs the other, just saying. Until NCEPT never thought of blaming Natca for why the hell 20+ Applications on USAJOBS resulted in nothing and I know I wasn’t the only one.

Plenty complained and that’s probably why we have NCEPT lol.

 

[Motodog]

Because the level 5 or 6 got placed there vs a level 12 on initial placement, they should have to jump through more hoops or facilities? That is straight garbage. That’s why the union should stay out of transfers completely and go back to putting them all on USAJOBS. That way the union can’t be blamed for being part of the problem.

So your solution is straight seniority? A pretty strong argument can be made for that considering the cesspool we’re looking at

 

[AB19]

The best part is you can’t even go the supe route because natca will just block it

 

[ATC Zero]

Plenty complained and that’s probably why we have NCEPT lol.

14 years in, 9 years at the time on NCEPT coming about. Never heard anyone blaming the union. People had 2-3 year releases but knew they were going somewhere vs now.

 

[Soham]

Plenty complained and that’s probably why we have NCEPT lol.

Isn't NCEPT basically the same as the old way but guaranteed release dates and slightly more transparent? You still need to know somebody or make a good impression visiting most of the time. Now your facility cant just hold you for an unknown time. I guess the other big change that basically makes it too hard to move is that there is an actual percentage used versus whatever the ATM was fine with.

 

[ATC Zero]

So your solution is straight seniority? A pretty strong argument can be made for that considering the cesspool we’re looking at

Making new CPC wait 1 year before applying anywhere would be a good starting point, they have it in the contract for facility of preference after working what 15 years at a high level….say they got placed there initially they are looking out for them….then on the other end of things people can get stuck at a low level for years 10+ unless willing to move anywhere…well after getting stuck somewhere for so long and seeing what’s happening with transfers makes you think what is worth risking to move up and the risk of getting caught somewhere ya didn’t want to be for the possible chance of trying to move up the ladder as some suggest lower level CPCs should do.
Cesspool? The ones who quit wait a year and apply direct to facility?
Military getting assign high level on initial placement to facilities that has extensive ERR list…..

 

[ChuckNovember]

So your solution is straight seniority? A pretty strong argument can be made for that considering the cesspool we’re looking at

Seeing how hard trainees over 30 struggle makes me think this would be a bad idea ?‍♂️

 

[ATC Zero]

Isn't NCEPT basically the same as the old way but guaranteed release dates and slightly more transparent? You still need to know somebody or make a good impression visiting most of the time. Now your facility cant just hold you for an unknown time. I guess the other big change that basically makes it too hard to move is that there is an actual percentage used versus whatever the ATM was fine with.

NCEPT and the ERR system were very different they didn’t look at percentages back then managers worked it out. Could also apply online to USAJOBS opening so you knew the places that were actively looking, managers looked at the applicants packages I’m assuming made more phone calls to get info on the applicants. Some assuming but yes a little networking helps. With the amount some facilities changeover in management makes doing that a lot for no guarantees how often ya gotta stay up on it and also not look desperate….

 

[Motodog]

Seeing how hard trainees over 30 struggle makes me think this would be a bad idea ?‍♂️

Ha, I hear ya. So now let‘s add age as a consideration. along with who appeases the union with PAC $, who know who, previous facility level, what could go wrong? This will never happen IMO, but how in the wide world of sports can we justify anything but straight seniority?

 

[AB19]

Ha, I hear ya. So now let‘s add age as a consideration. along with who appeases the union with PAC $, who know who, previous facility level, what could go wrong? This will never happen IMO, but how in the wide world of sports can we justify anything but straight seniority?

The same way the FAA justifies facility levels, a complex formula that makes no sense

 

[ATC Zero]

Seeing how hard trainees over 30 struggle makes me think this would be a bad idea ?‍♂️

If they stopped sending new hires straight to high level places and had a system that was efficient to actually move people up faster people wouldn’t be getting to 30+ Waiting on getting a transfer.
So saying that after a certain point there should be age discrimination? that would get real interesting if it could ever be found written in a email in any official capacity.